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“Never cross a river that is on average 4 feet deep” comes to mind here, to borrow from Taleb. Most people I know take annual or more frequent road trips for t

“Never cross a river that is on average 4 feet deep” comes to mind here, to borrow from Taleb. Most people I know take annual or more frequent road trips for travel, sport, or to visit family in neighboring states. These aren’t edge cases, they’re normal and predictable parts of peoples lives.

darknavi 3y ago
EV driver here who takes many road trips a year in them, so my hobbiest enthusiasm certainly guides my thinking. How impractical is renting a car for a once a year trip? EVs have a lot of upsides in terms of never going to a gas station and having less maintenance.
- bombcar 3y ago
  Depends on many factors. I’ve lived where I could grab an SUV from the rental shop down the street anytime I wanted, and I’ve lived where the drive to the rental shop would almost exhaust some EVs.
- whelp_24 3y ago
  Renting a car is expensive, especially when you have a car already. That you are paying full price for.
  - viraptor 3y ago
    But is it still expensive compared to the situation where you're buying fuel for the ICE instead? For many places, the saving on the fuel costs will more than offset the occasional trip. It's kind of similar to why we got rid of the second car. Sure, it's useful, but for all the extra costs, I can take multiple taxi trips a year. (I barely do 1 in practice)
    - whelp_24 3y ago
      I mean it really depends. There are probably some circumstances where it's cheaper. But I think it's not a forgone conclusion. Renting costs money, and you'll need gas for it too. Motortrends estimates 1300 to 2000 a year in fuel for an Accord. And 400-1200 for electricity in a tesla model 3 (charging at home not a supercharger). I can easily imagine eating up the savings in one or two rental trips, and that's certainly less convenient.
      - whelp_24 3y ago
        This is before considering that the gas car is at least 10k cheaper and probably closer to 20 to 30k.
- sokoloff 3y ago
  How impractical is it to rent a car for Dec 23 to Jan 1 if lots of other EV owners are doing the same thing? We're a happy one ICE, one EV family, but there's no way in hell we could be all EV. Our Christmas road trip is 766 miles each way, and our gas car does it in about 11 hours of wall-clock time door-to-door, including the two fuel stops owing to that car having such a small gas tank. I just saw the ABRP link below, so I played around with it abit. In our 2015 Nissan LEAF, that becomes a 29 hour trip with 22 charging stops. Obviously, that's a dumb car to take on a road trip. In a Hyundai AWD Long Range, it's 14h02m with 5 charging stops. A Tesla M3LR shaves 28 minutes off that time, but still takes 23% longer than the sub-$5K 2005 Honda CR-V.
  - jandrewrogers 3y ago
    This is the way. Currently have one ICE. Would probably buy an EV for a second. Too many things are too hard or too unsafe in an EV and renting can be a nightmare sometimes. I also think people forget what happened to rentals during COVID.
    - standardUser 3y ago
      Can you name two of the "too many things" that are "too unsafe" about EVs?
      - sokoloff 3y ago
        I'm not GP, but the towing capacities of most EVs are pretty abysmal (in both weight and range), which is a factor in our selection. Finding one that can tow even 3000 lbs is uncommon and 6000 lbs or more puts you into the Rivian/Lightning/Hummer realm in EVs ($$$). Or any-old <$20K used half-ton or mid-size SUV can tow that all day long.
        SEJeff 3y ago
        The Dual motor Cybertruck can tow 11,000 lbs. It also has a max range of up to 470 miles if you get the range extender.
- SoftTalker 3y ago
  Theoretically, renting a car for rare long drives is a reasonable proposal. In practice, it's a PITA in most areas. You go to pick it up, the rental office is understaffed, so you wait 20-30 minutes or more. Then they spend time trying to upsell you on the car and insurance and fuel plans, and then tell you they don't have the actual car model you reserved but they have a [not really comparable] substitute. Then you have to spend time walking around the car, looking for dents and scratches so they don't get charged to you when you turn it in. It would be more practical if it worked like on the TV ads where you just walk up to your car, get in, and go.
  - rdl 3y ago
    I rent cars approximately all the time (I live on an island, so when I go anywhere, it's by air, and except for NYC, I always get a car wherever I go). Maybe 20 rentals/yr, a few years it was 50+ rentals. Any of the big company "frequent renter" programs, like National Emerald Aisle/Executive, Hertz #1, etc., gives all the stuff you want. Usually I'm at airport locations (which do have extra taxes/fees), but it's "walk up to car, walk around one time just to make sure there's nothing obviously wrong, get in, adjust mirrors, configure usbc/carplay, stop at booth where they take my drivers license and credit card, drive off". With National I get my pick of any car on the lot (and with a corp discount code, usually around $30-40/day all-in). The local branches suck a little more due to limited selection and lack of cannelized check out, but they're pretty close. Also way worse at most non-US locations (with the exception of big gateway airports). I've returned cars and aside from one time where I drove over a concrete curb at CDG which I couldn't see (sigh, at the airport itself, returning the car), and had to pay for damages, it's always been painless. One time I returned a car where thieves at Stanford had broken the rear glass, and at SFO they just said "oh, another one", and checked a box on the return form; everything was handled via email after that. There are also day-rate car rentals through Uber and some other programs like that where you use an app, find car, and drive off. I would have no problem relying on rental for the last 5% of car needs (e.g. if I had a 2 seater or something, or didn't want to get snow tires to go into the mountains, etc. The "get to the rental location" is the biggest friction, and in true emergency cases where I absolutely need a car right then, which is why I usually rent for the whole trip.
- xboxnolifes 3y ago
  Once a year? not terrible. More, potentially bad. Car rentals are crazy expensive. I took a week vacation with friends last year and it cost me more to rent a car to get to the location than the combined cost of every thing else. The car was only used to get there and get back, but it's not like I could only rent it for the start and end days. Just having to rent a car a few times a year would kill most/any potential savings from an EV.
ttfkam 3y ago
So own an EV and rent the SUV, camper, hybrid, whatever once or twice a year. Normal and predictable events can get good discounts with advance reservation. Obviously if the trips are more frequent, eg. monthly, the economics will shift toward an ICE vehicle. But >90% of folks can probably just rent once or twice a year.

darknavi 3y ago

EV driver here who takes many road trips a year in them, so my hobbiest enthusiasm certainly guides my thinking. How impractical is renting a car for a once a year trip? EVs have a lot of upsides in terms of never going to a gas station and having less maintenance.

bombcar 3y ago
Depends on many factors. I’ve lived where I could grab an SUV from the rental shop down the street anytime I wanted, and I’ve lived where the drive to the rental shop would almost exhaust some EVs.
whelp_24 3y ago
Renting a car is expensive, especially when you have a car already. That you are paying full price for.
- viraptor 3y ago
  But is it still expensive compared to the situation where you're buying fuel for the ICE instead? For many places, the saving on the fuel costs will more than offset the occasional trip. It's kind of similar to why we got rid of the second car. Sure, it's useful, but for all the extra costs, I can take multiple taxi trips a year. (I barely do 1 in practice)
  - whelp_24 3y ago
    I mean it really depends. There are probably some circumstances where it's cheaper. But I think it's not a forgone conclusion. Renting costs money, and you'll need gas for it too. Motortrends estimates 1300 to 2000 a year in fuel for an Accord. And 400-1200 for electricity in a tesla model 3 (charging at home not a supercharger). I can easily imagine eating up the savings in one or two rental trips, and that's certainly less convenient.
    - whelp_24 3y ago
      This is before considering that the gas car is at least 10k cheaper and probably closer to 20 to 30k.
sokoloff 3y ago
How impractical is it to rent a car for Dec 23 to Jan 1 if lots of other EV owners are doing the same thing? We're a happy one ICE, one EV family, but there's no way in hell we could be all EV. Our Christmas road trip is 766 miles each way, and our gas car does it in about 11 hours of wall-clock time door-to-door, including the two fuel stops owing to that car having such a small gas tank. I just saw the ABRP link below, so I played around with it abit. In our 2015 Nissan LEAF, that becomes a 29 hour trip with 22 charging stops. Obviously, that's a dumb car to take on a road trip. In a Hyundai AWD Long Range, it's 14h02m with 5 charging stops. A Tesla M3LR shaves 28 minutes off that time, but still takes 23% longer than the sub-$5K 2005 Honda CR-V.
- jandrewrogers 3y ago
  This is the way. Currently have one ICE. Would probably buy an EV for a second. Too many things are too hard or too unsafe in an EV and renting can be a nightmare sometimes. I also think people forget what happened to rentals during COVID.
  - standardUser 3y ago
    Can you name two of the "too many things" that are "too unsafe" about EVs?
    - sokoloff 3y ago
      I'm not GP, but the towing capacities of most EVs are pretty abysmal (in both weight and range), which is a factor in our selection. Finding one that can tow even 3000 lbs is uncommon and 6000 lbs or more puts you into the Rivian/Lightning/Hummer realm in EVs ($$$). Or any-old <$20K used half-ton or mid-size SUV can tow that all day long.
      - SEJeff 3y ago
        The Dual motor Cybertruck can tow 11,000 lbs. It also has a max range of up to 470 miles if you get the range extender.
SoftTalker 3y ago
Theoretically, renting a car for rare long drives is a reasonable proposal. In practice, it's a PITA in most areas. You go to pick it up, the rental office is understaffed, so you wait 20-30 minutes or more. Then they spend time trying to upsell you on the car and insurance and fuel plans, and then tell you they don't have the actual car model you reserved but they have a [not really comparable] substitute. Then you have to spend time walking around the car, looking for dents and scratches so they don't get charged to you when you turn it in. It would be more practical if it worked like on the TV ads where you just walk up to your car, get in, and go.
- rdl 3y ago
  I rent cars approximately all the time (I live on an island, so when I go anywhere, it's by air, and except for NYC, I always get a car wherever I go). Maybe 20 rentals/yr, a few years it was 50+ rentals. Any of the big company "frequent renter" programs, like National Emerald Aisle/Executive, Hertz #1, etc., gives all the stuff you want. Usually I'm at airport locations (which do have extra taxes/fees), but it's "walk up to car, walk around one time just to make sure there's nothing obviously wrong, get in, adjust mirrors, configure usbc/carplay, stop at booth where they take my drivers license and credit card, drive off". With National I get my pick of any car on the lot (and with a corp discount code, usually around $30-40/day all-in). The local branches suck a little more due to limited selection and lack of cannelized check out, but they're pretty close. Also way worse at most non-US locations (with the exception of big gateway airports). I've returned cars and aside from one time where I drove over a concrete curb at CDG which I couldn't see (sigh, at the airport itself, returning the car), and had to pay for damages, it's always been painless. One time I returned a car where thieves at Stanford had broken the rear glass, and at SFO they just said "oh, another one", and checked a box on the return form; everything was handled via email after that. There are also day-rate car rentals through Uber and some other programs like that where you use an app, find car, and drive off. I would have no problem relying on rental for the last 5% of car needs (e.g. if I had a 2 seater or something, or didn't want to get snow tires to go into the mountains, etc. The "get to the rental location" is the biggest friction, and in true emergency cases where I absolutely need a car right then, which is why I usually rent for the whole trip.
xboxnolifes 3y ago
Once a year? not terrible. More, potentially bad. Car rentals are crazy expensive. I took a week vacation with friends last year and it cost me more to rent a car to get to the location than the combined cost of every thing else. The car was only used to get there and get back, but it's not like I could only rent it for the start and end days. Just having to rent a car a few times a year would kill most/any potential savings from an EV.

ttfkam 3y ago

So own an EV and rent the SUV, camper, hybrid, whatever once or twice a year. Normal and predictable events can get good discounts with advance reservation. Obviously if the trips are more frequent, eg. monthly, the economics will shift toward an ICE vehicle. But >90% of folks can probably just rent once or twice a year.