3 ms·

Freedom of speech does not mean employees can say whatever they want and not be fired. Freedom of speech means the government can't silence its citizens.

AlexandrB 3y ago
We're discussing Musk's definition of "freedom of speech", not yours, mine, or the constitution's. He seems to believe you should be able to say whatever you want (on Twitter) and not get fired. This is the definition that's relevant here because his ideas about freedom of speech from his many tweets on the subject don't align with his actions as a leader at Tesla and SpaceX.
- brandonagr2 3y ago
  Where do you get "and not get fired" from? You seem to be just inventing your own definition and falsely attributing it to Musk. Not being banned from a platform for a legal post that might be unpopular is not at all the same as never getting fired from an employer.
  - AlexandrB 3y ago
    To quote Musk's Tweet[1] on the topic: > If you were unfairly treated by your employer due to posting or liking something on this platform, we will fund your legal bill. > No limit. > Please let us know. Now "unfairly treated" leaves some wiggle room, but the obvious implication here is that if you get "unfairly" fired for Tweeting something Musk will fund your legal bills. Why would he make this offer if he did not believe that you should have freedom to say (Tweet) things your employer hates without retribution such as getting laid off? [1] https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1688022163574439937 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1688022163574439937
    - jeswin 3y ago
      "On this platform". That's not circulating grievances/politics on a company's internal channels. How are we confusing these two?
      - dralley 3y ago
        First of all, let's dispense with the notion that "on twitter" actually matters, given the man is so petty that he canceled a dude's Tesla order over a tweet that criticized him. Anyway: "grievances/politics" It came out that he paid a $250,000 settlement for a sexual harassment suit and he decided to respond to this by making jokes on twitter, quote: “Hi Chad, long time no see! Fine, if you touch my wiener, you can have a horse.” Can we not act like this is "politics"? This is about the basic decency people should expect from any employer.
        deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
        throwaway2037 3y ago
        Wow, that Twitter quote is crazy. Can you imagine any other CEO (or C-suite) for a major corp writing the same thing? They would be instantly fired. You see it on Wall Street frequently for much less, and at all ranks of employees. After many costly sexual harassment lawsuits against Wall Street banks, the culture has changed significantly in the last 20 years.
      - karpatic 3y ago
        Intentionally is my guess.
      - llbeansandrice 3y ago
        It’s not confusion it’s a comparison. The other commenter is trying to highlight Musk’s cognitive dissonance. On the one hand, he wants to support “free speech” on his platform (being able to say what you want _publicly_ and not get fired). On the other, his employees are getting fired for things they are saying internally. Obviously less of a moral crime, but one speech he is okay with squashing because it’s criticism of him. So given these two situations, what is Musk’s definition of “free speech”? A value he claims to hold very dearly and earnestly, but also tramples if it’s speech he doesn’t like.
bugglebeetle 3y ago
It does, to an extent, in many countries with stronger labor protections. The US has a unique conception of individual rights where they disappear the moment you step into a workplace. This is not, however, universal.

AlexandrB 3y ago

We're discussing Musk's definition of "freedom of speech", not yours, mine, or the constitution's. He seems to believe you should be able to say whatever you want (on Twitter) and not get fired. This is the definition that's relevant here because his ideas about freedom of speech from his many tweets on the subject don't align with his actions as a leader at Tesla and SpaceX.

brandonagr2 3y ago
Where do you get "and not get fired" from? You seem to be just inventing your own definition and falsely attributing it to Musk. Not being banned from a platform for a legal post that might be unpopular is not at all the same as never getting fired from an employer.
- AlexandrB 3y ago
  To quote Musk's Tweet[1] on the topic: > If you were unfairly treated by your employer due to posting or liking something on this platform, we will fund your legal bill. > No limit. > Please let us know. Now "unfairly treated" leaves some wiggle room, but the obvious implication here is that if you get "unfairly" fired for Tweeting something Musk will fund your legal bills. Why would he make this offer if he did not believe that you should have freedom to say (Tweet) things your employer hates without retribution such as getting laid off? [1] https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1688022163574439937 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1688022163574439937
  - jeswin 3y ago
    "On this platform". That's not circulating grievances/politics on a company's internal channels. How are we confusing these two?
    - dralley 3y ago
      First of all, let's dispense with the notion that "on twitter" actually matters, given the man is so petty that he canceled a dude's Tesla order over a tweet that criticized him. Anyway: "grievances/politics" It came out that he paid a $250,000 settlement for a sexual harassment suit and he decided to respond to this by making jokes on twitter, quote: “Hi Chad, long time no see! Fine, if you touch my wiener, you can have a horse.” Can we not act like this is "politics"? This is about the basic decency people should expect from any employer.
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
      - throwaway2037 3y ago
        Wow, that Twitter quote is crazy. Can you imagine any other CEO (or C-suite) for a major corp writing the same thing? They would be instantly fired. You see it on Wall Street frequently for much less, and at all ranks of employees. After many costly sexual harassment lawsuits against Wall Street banks, the culture has changed significantly in the last 20 years.
    - karpatic 3y ago
      Intentionally is my guess.
    - llbeansandrice 3y ago
      It’s not confusion it’s a comparison. The other commenter is trying to highlight Musk’s cognitive dissonance. On the one hand, he wants to support “free speech” on his platform (being able to say what you want _publicly_ and not get fired). On the other, his employees are getting fired for things they are saying internally. Obviously less of a moral crime, but one speech he is okay with squashing because it’s criticism of him. So given these two situations, what is Musk’s definition of “free speech”? A value he claims to hold very dearly and earnestly, but also tramples if it’s speech he doesn’t like.

bugglebeetle 3y ago

It does, to an extent, in many countries with stronger labor protections. The US has a unique conception of individual rights where they disappear the moment you step into a workplace. This is not, however, universal.