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This. I'm not sure why plugin hybrids are not a thing.... actually, I don't even want a plugin "hybrid" I want an EV that never uses the ICE unless you run out

This. I'm not sure why plugin hybrids are not a thing.... actually, I don't even want a plugin "hybrid" I want an EV that never uses the ICE unless you run out of power, then it's just an ICE vehicle entirely... In other words I want something they will never build.

reverius42 3y ago
That’s exactly what a plug in hybrid is, and lots of manufacturers make them today. Check out any Toyota model with “Prime” in the name.
- bombcar 3y ago
  The Prime refers to the premium you’ll pay for them, sadly. Many good options abound, but they’re all $10-15k more than the basic guzzler. And $15k is a lot of fuel.
drfuchs 3y ago
Well, the discontinued Chevy Volt is just that: 50ish miles on electrons from the plug-in battery; only then a few hundred on a tank of gas via the ICE. So, no range anxiety, and you can likely commute on battery alone. Can’t imagine why they didn’t sell well; I like mine fine, and find I do only about 20% of my travel in gas-mode.
- ireflect 3y ago
  And they are relatively cheap on the used market. The Volt is still awesome. I'm considering upgrading our 2017 to a 2019 (the last year they made it). But at 130,000kms ours is still getting 100km per charge in summer (70km in winter). Ours is a family car and we do less than 10% in gas mode.
toast0 3y ago
Plugin hybrids are a thing. They're designed as a system though, so a vehicle that works as you describe would need to have more power in both systems in order to run from either one independently. And that means more weight and worse efficiency. EV and ICE have great synergy if you use them together. EV offers amazing acceleration from zero, and relatively less amazing acceleration at highway speed. ICE has better acceleration when you're already moving. ICE efficiency is poor at low speeds, and better at high speeds, and EV is opposite. ICE can warm up the interior of the vehicle at no extra charge. If the engine is idling to warm up (itself or the occupants), might as well charge the batteries. If the battery has enough charge, it can easily start the engine when needed, so you don't need to idle unless warming is needed... And EV is always ready so you don't have the delay to go that some auto start/stop systems have. Anyway, at least in my PHEV, it had a 'EV only' mode you can use if you charge it, that operates close to what you suggest. It does run the engine a bit here and there for 'normal operations' and will try to cycle through the gas tank over several months to make sure the gas doesn't go stale. But if it's in EV only mode, acceleration from say 40 mph to 65 mph is poor, and the battery drains quick at 65 mph vs 30 mph ish or stop and go. Significant uphill eats the battery too. The one I drive is also very much a compromise vehicle, the extra battery for PHEV doesn't have a good place to go, so the trunk space is poor. There's probably ways to design a car to be PHEV first and find better places for the battery, but most/all? PHEVs I've seen are designed hybrid or ICE only first and then stuff extra batteries in storage areas.
musiciangames 3y ago
That was the BMW i3 with range extender. But also it seems discontinued in 2022. Although the range extender was a generator for the electrics, so maybe didn’t meet your definition of ICE entirely. I wanted to buy one but my wife hated the look of it. It seems like car companies used to give their electric cars to design interns and say “draw something that looks like it’s electric”.
- fomine3 3y ago
  MX-30 REV is a successor, for both functionality and perhaps unpopular style. It's not called "range extender" due to historical reason.
xxs 3y ago
> I'm not sure why plugin hybrids are not a thing.... actually, I don't even want a plugin "hybrid" I want an EV that never uses the ICE unless you run out of power, then it's just an ICE vehicle entirely... This is the default setup for mine, it starts on battery unless it's too cold (e.g. today's morning was -22C). Li-Ion batteries don't like cold (or heat), esp. don't like charging at negative temperatures. In short they are a thing, and a rather pleasant one; as a side bonus the combined power of the two engines is quite nice, e.g. taking large trucks at two lane roads (pedal to the metal does engage both engines)
Rebelgecko 3y ago
Whe I priced them out, PHEVs were such a premium over regular hybrids that they didn't really make sense. I figured if I bought a Prius Prime and got my catalytic converter stolen just once, I'd have bee better off financially just buying an above average (in cost) EV YMMV if you have a super long commute.
- fomine3 3y ago
  If anyone have super long commute, it's perfect use case for BEV. PHEV is for who commute average range and sometimes do long trip.
vegardx 3y ago
You get very little benefit with a plugin hybrid compared to just a hybrid or battery-electric vehicle. You have a very complex drive train, double the amount of motors, fuel tank, batteries, you get the idea. What you end up with is usually a very inefficient vehicle in all scenarios.
ulfw 3y ago
What are you talking about? The BMW i3 with range extender was exactly that. It wasn't practical and didn't sell and was hence cancelled.

reverius42 3y ago

That’s exactly what a plug in hybrid is, and lots of manufacturers make them today. Check out any Toyota model with “Prime” in the name.

bombcar 3y ago
The Prime refers to the premium you’ll pay for them, sadly. Many good options abound, but they’re all $10-15k more than the basic guzzler. And $15k is a lot of fuel.

drfuchs 3y ago

Well, the discontinued Chevy Volt is just that: 50ish miles on electrons from the plug-in battery; only then a few hundred on a tank of gas via the ICE. So, no range anxiety, and you can likely commute on battery alone. Can’t imagine why they didn’t sell well; I like mine fine, and find I do only about 20% of my travel in gas-mode.

ireflect 3y ago
And they are relatively cheap on the used market. The Volt is still awesome. I'm considering upgrading our 2017 to a 2019 (the last year they made it). But at 130,000kms ours is still getting 100km per charge in summer (70km in winter). Ours is a family car and we do less than 10% in gas mode.

toast0 3y ago

Plugin hybrids are a thing. They're designed as a system though, so a vehicle that works as you describe would need to have more power in both systems in order to run from either one independently. And that means more weight and worse efficiency. EV and ICE have great synergy if you use them together. EV offers amazing acceleration from zero, and relatively less amazing acceleration at highway speed. ICE has better acceleration when you're already moving. ICE efficiency is poor at low speeds, and better at high speeds, and EV is opposite. ICE can warm up the interior of the vehicle at no extra charge. If the engine is idling to warm up (itself or the occupants), might as well charge the batteries. If the battery has enough charge, it can easily start the engine when needed, so you don't need to idle unless warming is needed... And EV is always ready so you don't have the delay to go that some auto start/stop systems have. Anyway, at least in my PHEV, it had a 'EV only' mode you can use if you charge it, that operates close to what you suggest. It does run the engine a bit here and there for 'normal operations' and will try to cycle through the gas tank over several months to make sure the gas doesn't go stale. But if it's in EV only mode, acceleration from say 40 mph to 65 mph is poor, and the battery drains quick at 65 mph vs 30 mph ish or stop and go. Significant uphill eats the battery too. The one I drive is also very much a compromise vehicle, the extra battery for PHEV doesn't have a good place to go, so the trunk space is poor. There's probably ways to design a car to be PHEV first and find better places for the battery, but most/all? PHEVs I've seen are designed hybrid or ICE only first and then stuff extra batteries in storage areas.

musiciangames 3y ago

That was the BMW i3 with range extender. But also it seems discontinued in 2022. Although the range extender was a generator for the electrics, so maybe didn’t meet your definition of ICE entirely. I wanted to buy one but my wife hated the look of it. It seems like car companies used to give their electric cars to design interns and say “draw something that looks like it’s electric”.

fomine3 3y ago
MX-30 REV is a successor, for both functionality and perhaps unpopular style. It's not called "range extender" due to historical reason.

xxs 3y ago

> I'm not sure why plugin hybrids are not a thing.... actually, I don't even want a plugin "hybrid" I want an EV that never uses the ICE unless you run out of power, then it's just an ICE vehicle entirely... This is the default setup for mine, it starts on battery unless it's too cold (e.g. today's morning was -22C). Li-Ion batteries don't like cold (or heat), esp. don't like charging at negative temperatures. In short they are a thing, and a rather pleasant one; as a side bonus the combined power of the two engines is quite nice, e.g. taking large trucks at two lane roads (pedal to the metal does engage both engines)

Rebelgecko 3y ago

Whe I priced them out, PHEVs were such a premium over regular hybrids that they didn't really make sense. I figured if I bought a Prius Prime and got my catalytic converter stolen just once, I'd have bee better off financially just buying an above average (in cost) EV YMMV if you have a super long commute.

fomine3 3y ago
If anyone have super long commute, it's perfect use case for BEV. PHEV is for who commute average range and sometimes do long trip.

vegardx 3y ago

You get very little benefit with a plugin hybrid compared to just a hybrid or battery-electric vehicle. You have a very complex drive train, double the amount of motors, fuel tank, batteries, you get the idea. What you end up with is usually a very inefficient vehicle in all scenarios.

ulfw 3y ago

What are you talking about? The BMW i3 with range extender was exactly that. It wasn't practical and didn't sell and was hence cancelled.