4 ms·

I kind of agree actually on your cost points. It’s still a luxury purchase. I am a bit more conservative of a saver but feel priced out and sadly went ICE. If

by TIPSIO 3y ago

I kind of agree actually on your cost points. It’s still a luxury purchase. I am a bit more conservative of a saver but feel priced out and sadly went ICE. If you qualify for the EV tax credit, I would argue the car is too expensive for your budget. If you don’t qualify barely, a brand new ICE vehicle is going to last years and be cheaper. Is it really worth it to push budget? If you way don’t qualify, definitely buying an EV. Also congrats on your income.

lukas099 3y ago
I thought hybrids were the cost-conscious choice currently?
- TIPSIO 3y ago
  Super expensive.
  - lukas099 3y ago
    I remembered where I got the idea: https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/hybrids-evs/why-hybrid-vehicles-are-a-smart-choice-right-now-a2736240282/ https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/hybrids-evs/why-hybrid-... > Hybrid technology has generally meant comparatively higher sticker prices, though fuel savings can defray costs over time. Today’s average hybrid costs about $1,700 more, but the Ford Maverick pickup and Lexus NX SUV hybrids actually have lower sticker prices than gas-only versions. The new Lexus RX Hybrid costs the same as a comparably equipped non-hybrid. > In 2015 CR calculated that most hybrids took eight years to pay for themselves through fuel savings, with some, including the 2015 Volkswagen Jetta Hybrid and Lexus RX450h, taking more than a decade. Today, improved technology and higher gas prices mean the average payback is four years with gas at $3.35 a gallon and 12,000 miles driven a year. At $3 a gallon, the payback period increases to five years. The more miles driven, the quicker the payback. > You may also save money on repairs and maintenance. Case in point: The Prius is often in the top spot in our reliability surveys. A hybrid’s regenerative brakes create less wear and tear, so braking components can last longer, too. It’s true that replacing a hybrid battery can be a big expense, costing on average around $7,400, according to RepairPal, but our surveys show such replacements are rare. “Hybrid technology has been very reliable in our studies,” Fisher says. $1,700 more doesn't seem like that much, and 12,000 miles per year is not a high bar to clear.
  - oblio 3y ago
    Even the new Prius?
  - wing-_-nuts 3y ago
    A new prius is ~ 28k?
    - TIPSIO 3y ago
      Yep, but you just named a single car. If you look at any ICE vehicle model, a hybrid version is a super expensive upgrade. Then demand is greater and they are harder to get — aka, marked up further by dealers. Not really an argument. Hybrids are very expensive for majority of households to get.
      - wing-_-nuts 3y ago
        The hybrid version of a rav 4 is ~ 3k more than the base rav 4, and is also functionally at a higher trim level. Like, sure, if you can't afford the $3k, get the base I guess, but they're not a great deal more expensive, and demand is sort of cratering now that gas is cheap and the 'green halo' effect has moved strictly into the ev realm. Interestingly it's the same way with the honda civic and insight. Yeah, the insight ~ 3k more but it also comes with more features that many folks are going to opt for anyway. Finally, to be honest, economically, it never makes sense to buy a new car. Ever. If we really were concerned about value we'd look at prices for a beater prius vs a beater civic. The differential is there, but not that much. As much hay is made about battery degregation, prius batteries have held up surprisingly well. If you were looking for a cheap commuter I'd highly recommend it.
        TIPSIO 3y ago
        Not sure why you are trying so hard to argue it’s not that expensive. I wish there were better cost options for fuel efficient vehicles. Unfortunately it is not just $3k. Hybrid tend to be only on higher more expensive trims. You almost self figured that out. Then dealer markup. Then fees and taxes as a percentage of a larger sale. Is-just-$3k and what you are saying is fantasy land stuff. Maybe if you could buy and configure online like Tesla one day.
  - rickydroll 3y ago
    And poorly designed. My Chevy Volt is Is a minimum of what a plug-in hybrid should be. I get 45 to 60 miles on a charge (winter-summer), and about 80% of the time, it covers a hundred percent of my driving. I think that size the batteries for plug-in hybrid depends on your usual driving patterns. Daily driving, the 50 mile range I have now is great. About twice a week I need more like 100 mile range and 2-3 times a month, we take longer weekend trips around New England.
sokoloff 3y ago
> If you qualify for the EV tax credit, I would argue the car is too expensive for your budget. The AGI limit for a couple is $300K. I'm pretty anti-new car as a financial move, but even I have to admit that a couple pulling down $250K-$300K/yr is probably going to be able to fade buying a new car if they want.
- TIPSIO 3y ago
  Agree but everything is obviously relative to people’s situation and no perfect rule. Location, state property taxes, share the car or not, do they already have loan on another new car, new home owners or not, current net worth, age/retirement goal, kids, kids in daycare, etc… $300k AGI can get eaten ridiculously quick. Hence why I think an EV is too expensive for most.
  - sokoloff 3y ago
    Any new car is too expensive for most, so in that limited sense I agree with you. The EV credit serves to make an EV competitive on a TCO basis, so if you can afford any new car, you can probably equally well afford an EV with the credit.

by TIPSIO 3y ago

lukas099 3y ago

I thought hybrids were the cost-conscious choice currently?

TIPSIO 3y ago
Super expensive.
- lukas099 3y ago
  I remembered where I got the idea: https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/hybrids-evs/why-hybrid-vehicles-are-a-smart-choice-right-now-a2736240282/ https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/hybrids-evs/why-hybrid-... > Hybrid technology has generally meant comparatively higher sticker prices, though fuel savings can defray costs over time. Today’s average hybrid costs about $1,700 more, but the Ford Maverick pickup and Lexus NX SUV hybrids actually have lower sticker prices than gas-only versions. The new Lexus RX Hybrid costs the same as a comparably equipped non-hybrid. > In 2015 CR calculated that most hybrids took eight years to pay for themselves through fuel savings, with some, including the 2015 Volkswagen Jetta Hybrid and Lexus RX450h, taking more than a decade. Today, improved technology and higher gas prices mean the average payback is four years with gas at $3.35 a gallon and 12,000 miles driven a year. At $3 a gallon, the payback period increases to five years. The more miles driven, the quicker the payback. > You may also save money on repairs and maintenance. Case in point: The Prius is often in the top spot in our reliability surveys. A hybrid’s regenerative brakes create less wear and tear, so braking components can last longer, too. It’s true that replacing a hybrid battery can be a big expense, costing on average around $7,400, according to RepairPal, but our surveys show such replacements are rare. “Hybrid technology has been very reliable in our studies,” Fisher says. $1,700 more doesn't seem like that much, and 12,000 miles per year is not a high bar to clear.
- oblio 3y ago
  Even the new Prius?
- wing-_-nuts 3y ago
  A new prius is ~ 28k?
  - TIPSIO 3y ago
    Yep, but you just named a single car. If you look at any ICE vehicle model, a hybrid version is a super expensive upgrade. Then demand is greater and they are harder to get — aka, marked up further by dealers. Not really an argument. Hybrids are very expensive for majority of households to get.
    - wing-_-nuts 3y ago
      The hybrid version of a rav 4 is ~ 3k more than the base rav 4, and is also functionally at a higher trim level. Like, sure, if you can't afford the $3k, get the base I guess, but they're not a great deal more expensive, and demand is sort of cratering now that gas is cheap and the 'green halo' effect has moved strictly into the ev realm. Interestingly it's the same way with the honda civic and insight. Yeah, the insight ~ 3k more but it also comes with more features that many folks are going to opt for anyway. Finally, to be honest, economically, it never makes sense to buy a new car. Ever. If we really were concerned about value we'd look at prices for a beater prius vs a beater civic. The differential is there, but not that much. As much hay is made about battery degregation, prius batteries have held up surprisingly well. If you were looking for a cheap commuter I'd highly recommend it.
      - TIPSIO 3y ago
        Not sure why you are trying so hard to argue it’s not that expensive. I wish there were better cost options for fuel efficient vehicles. Unfortunately it is not just $3k. Hybrid tend to be only on higher more expensive trims. You almost self figured that out. Then dealer markup. Then fees and taxes as a percentage of a larger sale. Is-just-$3k and what you are saying is fantasy land stuff. Maybe if you could buy and configure online like Tesla one day.
- rickydroll 3y ago
  And poorly designed. My Chevy Volt is Is a minimum of what a plug-in hybrid should be. I get 45 to 60 miles on a charge (winter-summer), and about 80% of the time, it covers a hundred percent of my driving. I think that size the batteries for plug-in hybrid depends on your usual driving patterns. Daily driving, the 50 mile range I have now is great. About twice a week I need more like 100 mile range and 2-3 times a month, we take longer weekend trips around New England.

sokoloff 3y ago

> If you qualify for the EV tax credit, I would argue the car is too expensive for your budget. The AGI limit for a couple is $300K. I'm pretty anti-new car as a financial move, but even I have to admit that a couple pulling down $250K-$300K/yr is probably going to be able to fade buying a new car if they want.

TIPSIO 3y ago
Agree but everything is obviously relative to people’s situation and no perfect rule. Location, state property taxes, share the car or not, do they already have loan on another new car, new home owners or not, current net worth, age/retirement goal, kids, kids in daycare, etc… $300k AGI can get eaten ridiculously quick. Hence why I think an EV is too expensive for most.
- sokoloff 3y ago
  Any new car is too expensive for most, so in that limited sense I agree with you. The EV credit serves to make an EV competitive on a TCO basis, so if you can afford any new car, you can probably equally well afford an EV with the credit.