5 ms·

why is tesla the only viable option?

brightball 3y ago
I’ve test driven most of the competition. They are all much more expensive for a subpar product from what I’ve seen. IMO the plugin hyrbid market is a much more natural transition and some of those vehicles are becoming very good. The Chrysler Pacifica plug-in minivan is excellent for the price and the BMW X5 plugins are by far the best luxury plugin SUVs that I’ve seen. You can get good deals on used Pacifica plugins too. Typically in the $20k range. But we still need a good EV option that is close to $20k brand new.
- ohfoydoyd 3y ago
  I'm not sure I agree with your first statement. At the low end I would take a Hyundai Ioniq any day over a model 3, and they're comparably priced. At the high end, I'll concede things are a bit more expensive, but I'll take the barely used Taycan Turbo I got for 70k any day over a new Model S.
  - brightball 3y ago
    I should have included the Ioniq in the list. It was right up there.
  - natch 3y ago
    No supercharger network. That made Ioniq dead in the water for us. Not to mention lack of good life changing features we rely on in our Teslas. If you only drive local, ever, then the Ioniq could work… but why would you get one? And now that the Model Y price has dropped so much, you should be comparing the features of the no-haggle straight priced Model Y to the features and charger network of the dealer-marked-up Ioniq, not comparing to the Model 3. Barely used Taycan… lol I wonder why they gave it up? Could it be the poor efficiency? Or that a Model S Plaid is quicker and costs less? Or again the charger network has a small existential issue.
    - margalabargala 3y ago
      > No supercharger network. Depending where you are in the country, this can be a feature. Where I live (Oregon), Tesla only bothered to build chargers in the big population centers, while other companies have built CCS chargers all over the place. If you pick a random geographical location in Oregon it's more likely to be closest to a CCS charger than a Tesla charger. Tesla wins in other counts like "number of charging stalls" because they built 20 at a time, but you can't road trip to a lot of eastern Oregon with one.
      - cevn 3y ago
        Tesla can still use those CCS chargers tho, so you would only lose chargers by not getting one?
      - agloe_dreams 3y ago
        I mean...a Tesla can use a CCS adapter just fine. Then you get way more than either. That is the advantage.
        margalabargala 3y ago
        It can, but out of the seven different Tesla owners I know, zero own a CCS charger adapter. What I've observed is that Tesla owners (this includes my own parents) are so convinced that NACS is superior to CCS (which, to be fair, it has a lot of advantages) that they don't want to use CCS. They'll put down CCS any chance they get, and there's this weird sense of "purity" that they maintain by not using an adapter. Also the adapter costs extra money. I'm sure that not all Tesla owners are like this, but many of them are, especially people who have owned Teslas for longer.
        agloe_dreams 3y ago
        Probably mostly a 'dont need to'. CCS is annoying- you need the apps and/or to swipe a card, there is no integration in the GPS, etc. The Supercharger is like EZpass for charging - you just plug it in -they bill you later.
- bombcar 3y ago
  The Pacifica is “ok” for the price, with the plugin you lose the best feature and you’re now quite a bit more out the door. The sienna with a plug would be quite competitive but even that is a bit more than bog standard. And nobody makes an EV minivan even though it should be a no-brainer.
  - bluGill 3y ago
    > nobody makes an EV minivan even though it should be a no-brainer. VW makes them, they just won't bring them to the US. They have officially announced they are coming in June, but time will tell. I'm going to look close when it comes - it could save me a lot of $$$ most months (the pacifica hybrid as much lower range on battery and so wouldn't save nearly as much)
    - bombcar 3y ago
      True, but "future minivans" don't help when I needed "now minivans". And the E-Transit isn't available in a passenger version, I'd've seriously considered it.
      - bluGill 3y ago
        I have been driving a 12 year old minivan for a few years for that reason. Also why I'm watching VW so close right now.
    - brightball 3y ago
      We had one and my wife only had to get gas every 3 months or so. Definitely depends on your use but 35-40 miles a day on battery was plenty for her.
      - bluGill 3y ago
        The newer ones only get about 20 miles or range. I have looked at them, but my wife is short and so she cannot reach the pedals. We have an older minivan with adjustable pedals that works well.
- sokoloff 3y ago
  > BMW X5 plugins are by far the best luxury plugin SUVs that I’ve seen I'm curious if you shopped the PHEV Cayenne to compare? I'm very likely to buy one this month (used) and the few that I've test-driven have seemed pretty great, coming from a 235K miles 2005 CR-V. :)
  - brightball 3y ago
    I didn’t see one in our area when we were looking. That BMW was the nicest vehicle I’ve ever been in. Absolutely blew me away.

I’ve test driven most of the competition. They are all much more expensive for a subpar product from what I’ve seen. IMO the plugin hyrbid market is a much more natural transition and some of those vehicles are becoming very good. The Chrysler Pacifica plug-in minivan is excellent for the price and the BMW X5 plugins are by far the best luxury plugin SUVs that I’ve seen. You can get good deals on used Pacifica plugins too. Typically in the $20k range. But we still need a good EV option that is close to $20k brand new.

ohfoydoyd 3y ago
I'm not sure I agree with your first statement. At the low end I would take a Hyundai Ioniq any day over a model 3, and they're comparably priced. At the high end, I'll concede things are a bit more expensive, but I'll take the barely used Taycan Turbo I got for 70k any day over a new Model S.
- brightball 3y ago
  I should have included the Ioniq in the list. It was right up there.
- natch 3y ago
  No supercharger network. That made Ioniq dead in the water for us. Not to mention lack of good life changing features we rely on in our Teslas. If you only drive local, ever, then the Ioniq could work… but why would you get one? And now that the Model Y price has dropped so much, you should be comparing the features of the no-haggle straight priced Model Y to the features and charger network of the dealer-marked-up Ioniq, not comparing to the Model 3. Barely used Taycan… lol I wonder why they gave it up? Could it be the poor efficiency? Or that a Model S Plaid is quicker and costs less? Or again the charger network has a small existential issue.
  - margalabargala 3y ago
    > No supercharger network. Depending where you are in the country, this can be a feature. Where I live (Oregon), Tesla only bothered to build chargers in the big population centers, while other companies have built CCS chargers all over the place. If you pick a random geographical location in Oregon it's more likely to be closest to a CCS charger than a Tesla charger. Tesla wins in other counts like "number of charging stalls" because they built 20 at a time, but you can't road trip to a lot of eastern Oregon with one.
    - cevn 3y ago
      Tesla can still use those CCS chargers tho, so you would only lose chargers by not getting one?
    - agloe_dreams 3y ago
      I mean...a Tesla can use a CCS adapter just fine. Then you get way more than either. That is the advantage.
      - margalabargala 3y ago
        It can, but out of the seven different Tesla owners I know, zero own a CCS charger adapter. What I've observed is that Tesla owners (this includes my own parents) are so convinced that NACS is superior to CCS (which, to be fair, it has a lot of advantages) that they don't want to use CCS. They'll put down CCS any chance they get, and there's this weird sense of "purity" that they maintain by not using an adapter. Also the adapter costs extra money. I'm sure that not all Tesla owners are like this, but many of them are, especially people who have owned Teslas for longer.
        agloe_dreams 3y ago
        Probably mostly a 'dont need to'. CCS is annoying- you need the apps and/or to swipe a card, there is no integration in the GPS, etc. The Supercharger is like EZpass for charging - you just plug it in -they bill you later.
bombcar 3y ago
The Pacifica is “ok” for the price, with the plugin you lose the best feature and you’re now quite a bit more out the door. The sienna with a plug would be quite competitive but even that is a bit more than bog standard. And nobody makes an EV minivan even though it should be a no-brainer.
- bluGill 3y ago
  > nobody makes an EV minivan even though it should be a no-brainer. VW makes them, they just won't bring them to the US. They have officially announced they are coming in June, but time will tell. I'm going to look close when it comes - it could save me a lot of $$$ most months (the pacifica hybrid as much lower range on battery and so wouldn't save nearly as much)
  - bombcar 3y ago
    True, but "future minivans" don't help when I needed "now minivans". And the E-Transit isn't available in a passenger version, I'd've seriously considered it.
    - bluGill 3y ago
      I have been driving a 12 year old minivan for a few years for that reason. Also why I'm watching VW so close right now.
  - brightball 3y ago
    We had one and my wife only had to get gas every 3 months or so. Definitely depends on your use but 35-40 miles a day on battery was plenty for her.
    - bluGill 3y ago
      The newer ones only get about 20 miles or range. I have looked at them, but my wife is short and so she cannot reach the pedals. We have an older minivan with adjustable pedals that works well.
sokoloff 3y ago
> BMW X5 plugins are by far the best luxury plugin SUVs that I’ve seen I'm curious if you shopped the PHEV Cayenne to compare? I'm very likely to buy one this month (used) and the few that I've test-driven have seemed pretty great, coming from a 235K miles 2005 CR-V. :)
- brightball 3y ago
  I didn’t see one in our area when we were looking. That BMW was the nicest vehicle I’ve ever been in. Absolutely blew me away.