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Yes, Gaza is a neighbouring region of Israel. You can determine this by looking at a map. Gaza has borders to multiple countries, you can also determine this by

by nailer 3y ago

Yes, Gaza is a neighbouring region of Israel. You can determine this by looking at a map. Gaza has borders to multiple countries, you can also determine this by looking at a map. After being given a $300 million flower export business in 2005, Gaza elected an organisation that wants to murder all Jewish people worldwide. As anyone can understand, Israel would likely close its border to such an awful region. I am glad that you can’t think there’s any good reason for Israel to not provide free utilities to Gaza - I think perhaps not being you can do so, may raise questions in your own mind. I am content not to resolve the issue in a hacker thread, however, I am doing you a favour by making you realise how ridiculous these arguments are. I once used to think along the same lines as you about Israel versus Palestine but then realise I was in a left-wing bubble full of provably false information.

tptacek 3y ago
There hasn't been an election in Gaza since 2006. The overwhelming majority of Gazans are too young to ever have voted. Hamas won the 2006 election in large party by throwing PA supporters off of rooftops. The other side of this argument routinely overstates it case, but you're doing your side no favors here by pretending that Israel can cut Gaza off at its own discretion. It cannot.
- nailer 3y ago
  > The overwhelming majority of Gazans are too young to ever have voted. That is true, but the majority of Gazans polled support the actions of Oct 7, and back in 2021 most supported Hamas in another polls. I do appreciate these polls may be answered under duress though and from what I see on video, there are definitely some people inside Gaza that are tired of living under Hamas. We just don't know how many. > you're doing your side no favors here by pretending that Israel can cut Gaza off at its own discretion. It cannot. I don't have a side asides from that of truth. I don't understand what the basis for this argument is - why can't Israel stop supplying utilities to Gaza? Israel probably will post-Hamas, since the UAE or whoever else would like them to do so, but ultimately it's at Israel's discretion.
  - tptacek 3y ago
    No, for all the reasons stated upthread.
    - nailer 3y ago
      I don't see any reasons from you or the other commenter upthread. One person may have alleged it was collective punishment but that's already been dismissed.
      - tptacek 3y ago
        I have nothing to do with "the other commenter upthread" and am disinclined to respond to anything framed that way.
        nailer 3y ago
        Okay: I haven’t seen anything from you explaining why Israel needs to provide Gaza with free utilities
        Thiez 3y ago
        Even though they didn't have a physical presence, they were in control of the territory, controlling all borders, the sea, and the air. Israel is widely considered to be an occupying force due to this control. Regardless of whether you agree or disagree that Israel is occupying Gaza, would you at least agree that an occupier in general has a responsibility to provide basic necessities like water to the occupied?
        nailer 3y ago
        > controlling all borders No. Egypt lets Israel run the border, but if Egypt wanted to open the border to Israel it would. > would you at least agree that an occupier in general has a responsibility to provide basic necessities like water to the occupied? But it's not relevant, since there's no occupier. The government of Gaza has the responsibility to provide basic necessities to Gaza. Instead they spent it on tunnels and weapons.
johnnyworker 3y ago
> As anyone can understand, Israel would likely close its border to such an awful region. Murdering or ethnically cleansing the population to then take over the area isn't "closing the border". The IDF created a situation in which 500.000 people might die in the next 12 months, without further bombing. The murder continues either way. And under international law, the obligations of Israel as an occupying force are clear. > The occupying power must take measures to restore and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety. -- https://www.icrc.org/en/doc/resources/documents/misc/634kfc.htm https://www.icrc.org/en/doc/resources/documents/misc/634kfc.... Instead: > Israeli forces continue their attacks on Palestinian refugee camps throughout Palestine, including in the West Bank. They destroyed more infrastructure in Tulkarem refugee camp last night including roads and water infrastructure. Water access is controlled by the occupation. https://twitter.com/Shepherds4Good/status/1742858629965901921 https://twitter.com/Shepherds4Good/status/174285862996590192... While some at best condemn the now unmasked calls for ethnic cleansing and even genocide, but not the actions. The claim that reducing Gaza to rubble and murdering or dislocating all the people there is the only way to ensure safety is nonsense, it ensures no such thing. It would remain a giant crime even if that was the intent, that "intent" isn't even real. Hamas was supported over moderates by Netanyahu precisely to prevent peace. That's all on record. > Israeli finance minister Smotrich: "In the context of de-legitimization - Hamas is an asset (for Israel) and the Palestinian Authority is a liability" - https://twitter.com/pgosh_MTP/status/1741169302051402195 https://twitter.com/pgosh_MTP/status/1741169302051402195 Wanton destruction of civilian infrastructure, just one very clear example one of many, many such war crimes: https://twitter.com/muhammadshehad2/status/1731772261848264771 https://twitter.com/muhammadshehad2/status/17317722618482647... > If we act strategically correctly, there will be immigration and we will live in the Gaza Strip. We will not allow a situation where 2 million people live there. If there are 100-200 thousand Arabs in Gaza, all the talk is about the day after will be different. - https://twitter.com/GLZRadio/status/1741347524693127398 https://twitter.com/GLZRadio/status/1741347524693127398 Denying that this is ethnic cleansing, and blaming the victims for the collective punishment and crimes against humanity, is a terrible thing to do. It's also futile.
- tptacek 3y ago
  Denying that this is ethnic cleansing, and blaming the victims for the collective punishment and crimes against humanity, is a terrible thing to do. It's also futile. Please stop personally attacking people in these threads. Make your point calmly or not at all. This isn't even effective as rhetoric. The comment you responded to made an argument that didn't require a wall of text or an appeal to Bezalel Smotrich to knock down.

by nailer 3y ago

tptacek 3y ago

There hasn't been an election in Gaza since 2006. The overwhelming majority of Gazans are too young to ever have voted. Hamas won the 2006 election in large party by throwing PA supporters off of rooftops. The other side of this argument routinely overstates it case, but you're doing your side no favors here by pretending that Israel can cut Gaza off at its own discretion. It cannot.

nailer 3y ago
> The overwhelming majority of Gazans are too young to ever have voted. That is true, but the majority of Gazans polled support the actions of Oct 7, and back in 2021 most supported Hamas in another polls. I do appreciate these polls may be answered under duress though and from what I see on video, there are definitely some people inside Gaza that are tired of living under Hamas. We just don't know how many. > you're doing your side no favors here by pretending that Israel can cut Gaza off at its own discretion. It cannot. I don't have a side asides from that of truth. I don't understand what the basis for this argument is - why can't Israel stop supplying utilities to Gaza? Israel probably will post-Hamas, since the UAE or whoever else would like them to do so, but ultimately it's at Israel's discretion.
- tptacek 3y ago
  No, for all the reasons stated upthread.
  - nailer 3y ago
    I don't see any reasons from you or the other commenter upthread. One person may have alleged it was collective punishment but that's already been dismissed.
    - tptacek 3y ago
      I have nothing to do with "the other commenter upthread" and am disinclined to respond to anything framed that way.
      - nailer 3y ago
        Okay: I haven’t seen anything from you explaining why Israel needs to provide Gaza with free utilities
        Thiez 3y ago
        Even though they didn't have a physical presence, they were in control of the territory, controlling all borders, the sea, and the air. Israel is widely considered to be an occupying force due to this control. Regardless of whether you agree or disagree that Israel is occupying Gaza, would you at least agree that an occupier in general has a responsibility to provide basic necessities like water to the occupied?
        nailer 3y ago
        > controlling all borders No. Egypt lets Israel run the border, but if Egypt wanted to open the border to Israel it would. > would you at least agree that an occupier in general has a responsibility to provide basic necessities like water to the occupied? But it's not relevant, since there's no occupier. The government of Gaza has the responsibility to provide basic necessities to Gaza. Instead they spent it on tunnels and weapons.

johnnyworker 3y ago

> As anyone can understand, Israel would likely close its border to such an awful region. Murdering or ethnically cleansing the population to then take over the area isn't "closing the border". The IDF created a situation in which 500.000 people might die in the next 12 months, without further bombing. The murder continues either way. And under international law, the obligations of Israel as an occupying force are clear. > The occupying power must take measures to restore and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety. -- https://www.icrc.org/en/doc/resources/documents/misc/634kfc.htm https://www.icrc.org/en/doc/resources/documents/misc/634kfc.... Instead: > Israeli forces continue their attacks on Palestinian refugee camps throughout Palestine, including in the West Bank. They destroyed more infrastructure in Tulkarem refugee camp last night including roads and water infrastructure. Water access is controlled by the occupation. https://twitter.com/Shepherds4Good/status/1742858629965901921 https://twitter.com/Shepherds4Good/status/174285862996590192... While some at best condemn the now unmasked calls for ethnic cleansing and even genocide, but not the actions. The claim that reducing Gaza to rubble and murdering or dislocating all the people there is the only way to ensure safety is nonsense, it ensures no such thing. It would remain a giant crime even if that was the intent, that "intent" isn't even real. Hamas was supported over moderates by Netanyahu precisely to prevent peace. That's all on record. > Israeli finance minister Smotrich: "In the context of de-legitimization - Hamas is an asset (for Israel) and the Palestinian Authority is a liability" - https://twitter.com/pgosh_MTP/status/1741169302051402195 https://twitter.com/pgosh_MTP/status/1741169302051402195 Wanton destruction of civilian infrastructure, just one very clear example one of many, many such war crimes: https://twitter.com/muhammadshehad2/status/1731772261848264771 https://twitter.com/muhammadshehad2/status/17317722618482647... > If we act strategically correctly, there will be immigration and we will live in the Gaza Strip. We will not allow a situation where 2 million people live there. If there are 100-200 thousand Arabs in Gaza, all the talk is about the day after will be different. - https://twitter.com/GLZRadio/status/1741347524693127398 https://twitter.com/GLZRadio/status/1741347524693127398 Denying that this is ethnic cleansing, and blaming the victims for the collective punishment and crimes against humanity, is a terrible thing to do. It's also futile.

tptacek 3y ago
Denying that this is ethnic cleansing, and blaming the victims for the collective punishment and crimes against humanity, is a terrible thing to do. It's also futile. Please stop personally attacking people in these threads. Make your point calmly or not at all. This isn't even effective as rhetoric. The comment you responded to made an argument that didn't require a wall of text or an appeal to Bezalel Smotrich to knock down.