5 ms·

Amber: Smalltalk for the Web

118 points by lunarcave 3y ago

dang 3y ago
Related: Amber Smalltalk - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26128607 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26128607 - Feb 2021 (12 comments) Amber – Smalltalk in the Browser - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22425626 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22425626 - Feb 2020 (1 comment) Learn Smalltalk with ProfStef - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17940152 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17940152 - Sept 2018 (6 comments) Amber Smalltalk - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13112207 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13112207 - Dec 2016 (48 comments) Amber: A new language and live environment made for the web - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11299547 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11299547 - March 2016 (1 comment) Smalltalk runtime in the browser - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6216539 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6216539 - Aug 2013 (33 comments) Amber Smalltalk 0.10 released - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5369682 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5369682 - March 2013 (15 comments) Learn Smalltalk in the browser - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2996510 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2996510 - Sept 2011 (2 comments) Amber - Smalltalk on JavaScript runtime - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2995689 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2995689 - Sept 2011 (1 comment)
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
gilch 3y ago
No commits for a year? https://lolg.it/amber/amber https://lolg.it/amber/amber Is it dead?
- blihp 3y ago
  I think so. SqueakJS fills the space Amber used to occupy.
  - zelphirkalt 3y ago
    Is Squeak itself still an actively developed project? I hear much more about Pharo.
    - worthless-trash 3y ago
      i would like to learn pharoh, but I can't seem to understand how to get started. It looks like one of those tools you need a video to understand.
      - zilti 3y ago
        When you start it, you get a first start wizard that allows you to start a tutorial
      - Qem 3y ago
        You can start with the Pharo MOOC: https://mooc.pharo.org/ https://mooc.pharo.org/ There's a tutorial to get the very basics of Smalltalk/Pharo called ProfStef. Here's an online version: https://amber-lang.net/learn.html https://amber-lang.net/learn.html It has a built-in version on Pharo images as well.
      - b4ke 3y ago
        Glamorous toolkit docs/examples are a useful pharo intro.
      - sebastianconcpt 3y ago
        Have you seen you have this track in Exercism? https://exercism.org/tracks/pharo-smalltalk https://exercism.org/tracks/pharo-smalltalk And this if you want to feel not alone in the first steps: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQ-kAQWMMTQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQ-kAQWMMTQ
        worthless-trash 3y ago
        Thank you! Getting into it this new week.
    - Qem 3y ago
sebastianconcpt 3y ago
I used to use it daily back in 2013. Even put together flow [1] a stack based on it because the workflow with Pharo and Mapless [2] felt so nice. And blogged about it: Flow - A living full-stack ‎framework for the web - https://medium.com/@sebastiansastre/flow-a-living-full-stack-framework-for-the-web-b4772630f190 https://medium.com/@sebastiansastre/flow-a-living-full-stack... Improving the Amber Experience - Some small steps to improve the productivity and overall experience of developing with Amber Smalltalk - https://medium.com/@sebastiansastre/improving-the-amber-experience-26764d5d578 https://medium.com/@sebastiansastre/improving-the-amber-expe... Flow demoed at Smalltalks2014 - https://medium.com/@sebastiansastre/flow-demoed-at-smalltalks2014-43d14a8643a9 https://medium.com/@sebastiansastre/flow-demoed-at-smalltalk... Upgrading to flow 0.2 - https://medium.com/@sebastiansastre/upgrading-to-flow-0-2-d49b6cbd883a https://medium.com/@sebastiansastre/upgrading-to-flow-0-2-d4... [1] https://github.com/flow-stack/flow https://github.com/flow-stack/flow [2] https://github.com/sebastianconcept/Mapless https://github.com/sebastianconcept/Mapless
- Lyngbakr 3y ago
  Out of curiosity, why did you stop using it daily?
  - sebastianconcpt 3y ago
    My plan was to have something strategic regarding to the productivity of the smalltalker in terms of web applications that can deliver the UX of a single page application. Here is a talk with more spirit than skill back from 2014 trying to promote that mission https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iumCpezWzkU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iumCpezWzkU At the time I was focused in a Seaside based SaaS that I started in 2009 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Z29q5PUoJs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Z29q5PUoJs Although that SaaS had very low churn and very long LTV and low CAC, I failed to raise money to grow it and I've failed to find the right growth guy that could help and shutdown in 2015. My bet was to use that flow stack to make this SaaS next big upgrade to be a Single Page Application done with Amber in the frontend but didn't go well due to these non-technical issues. Then Angular was eating the web world and the React tsunami was just started. It's funny to see that now there is a come back to SSR.
pacifika 3y ago
Couldn’t easily find any code samples so left it last time this came up. Would appreciate a pointer? Thanks
em-bee 3y ago
i love smalltalk, but i mainly do web development, and i was curious to do frontend development in smalltalk, so amber looked interesting. but i could not see how to do frontend only development. i am not interested in fullstack solutions because they only work for greenfield projects. i mostly build frontends for existing backends with a REST API or similar. existing smalltalk webframeworks are either backend or fullstack, and made no sense for me to use inside amber. an amber frontend framework would essentially be a GUI toolkit that uses html/css templates to design the UI, then smalltalk to fill in the logic with fetch calls to exchange data with arbitrary backends.
- lolinder 3y ago
  > i am not interested in fullstack solutions because they only work for greenfield projects. i mostly build frontends for existing backends with a REST API or similar. There are probably other reasons to avoid a full stack framework, but this isn't one—there's nothing to stop you from making the backend just a proxy to the existing API. Aside from that, Amber is entirely client-side from what I can see. The Amber server is the equivalent of the Webpack or Vite dev servers, just used during the development process. It looks like Amber compiles to plain JS that runs directly in the browser.
  - em-bee 3y ago
    yes, amber is entirely clientside. that is what makes it interesting. but the smalltalk web frameworks are mostly backend frameworks designed to run in pharo or squeak, which means they feel way to bulky and not suited for an SPA web frontend were i want to dynamically update the DOM when data changes instead of generating a whole new page to send to the browser like traditional web frameworks. there's nothing to stop you from making the backend just a proxy to the existing API what is stopping me is that this forces me to run two backends and an additional layer of indirection.
- andsoitis 3y ago
  you can also check out Cuis Smalltalk, which includes be able to run in the browser using WASM Prior discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38820742 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38820742
scotty79 3y ago
> Smalltalk stands head and shoulders above most other languages for clarity, conciseness, and human-friendliness. Very cool. What if I want to read through printout of your smalltalk program?

118 points by lunarcave 3y ago

dang 3y ago

Related: Amber Smalltalk - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26128607 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26128607 - Feb 2021 (12 comments) Amber – Smalltalk in the Browser - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22425626 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22425626 - Feb 2020 (1 comment) Learn Smalltalk with ProfStef - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17940152 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17940152 - Sept 2018 (6 comments) Amber Smalltalk - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13112207 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13112207 - Dec 2016 (48 comments) Amber: A new language and live environment made for the web - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11299547 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11299547 - March 2016 (1 comment) Smalltalk runtime in the browser - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6216539 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6216539 - Aug 2013 (33 comments) Amber Smalltalk 0.10 released - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5369682 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5369682 - March 2013 (15 comments) Learn Smalltalk in the browser - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2996510 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2996510 - Sept 2011 (2 comments) Amber - Smalltalk on JavaScript runtime - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2995689 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2995689 - Sept 2011 (1 comment)

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

gilch 3y ago

No commits for a year? https://lolg.it/amber/amber https://lolg.it/amber/amber Is it dead?

blihp 3y ago
I think so. SqueakJS fills the space Amber used to occupy.
- zelphirkalt 3y ago
  Is Squeak itself still an actively developed project? I hear much more about Pharo.
  - worthless-trash 3y ago
    i would like to learn pharoh, but I can't seem to understand how to get started. It looks like one of those tools you need a video to understand.
    - zilti 3y ago
      When you start it, you get a first start wizard that allows you to start a tutorial
    - Qem 3y ago
      You can start with the Pharo MOOC: https://mooc.pharo.org/ https://mooc.pharo.org/ There's a tutorial to get the very basics of Smalltalk/Pharo called ProfStef. Here's an online version: https://amber-lang.net/learn.html https://amber-lang.net/learn.html It has a built-in version on Pharo images as well.
    - b4ke 3y ago
      Glamorous toolkit docs/examples are a useful pharo intro.
    - sebastianconcpt 3y ago
      Have you seen you have this track in Exercism? https://exercism.org/tracks/pharo-smalltalk https://exercism.org/tracks/pharo-smalltalk And this if you want to feel not alone in the first steps: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQ-kAQWMMTQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQ-kAQWMMTQ
      - worthless-trash 3y ago
        Thank you! Getting into it this new week.
  - Qem 3y ago

sebastianconcpt 3y ago

I used to use it daily back in 2013. Even put together flow [1] a stack based on it because the workflow with Pharo and Mapless [2] felt so nice. And blogged about it: Flow - A living full-stack ‎framework for the web - https://medium.com/@sebastiansastre/flow-a-living-full-stack-framework-for-the-web-b4772630f190 https://medium.com/@sebastiansastre/flow-a-living-full-stack... Improving the Amber Experience - Some small steps to improve the productivity and overall experience of developing with Amber Smalltalk - https://medium.com/@sebastiansastre/improving-the-amber-experience-26764d5d578 https://medium.com/@sebastiansastre/improving-the-amber-expe... Flow demoed at Smalltalks2014 - https://medium.com/@sebastiansastre/flow-demoed-at-smalltalks2014-43d14a8643a9 https://medium.com/@sebastiansastre/flow-demoed-at-smalltalk... Upgrading to flow 0.2 - https://medium.com/@sebastiansastre/upgrading-to-flow-0-2-d49b6cbd883a https://medium.com/@sebastiansastre/upgrading-to-flow-0-2-d4... [1] https://github.com/flow-stack/flow https://github.com/flow-stack/flow [2] https://github.com/sebastianconcept/Mapless https://github.com/sebastianconcept/Mapless

Lyngbakr 3y ago
Out of curiosity, why did you stop using it daily?
- sebastianconcpt 3y ago
  My plan was to have something strategic regarding to the productivity of the smalltalker in terms of web applications that can deliver the UX of a single page application. Here is a talk with more spirit than skill back from 2014 trying to promote that mission https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iumCpezWzkU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iumCpezWzkU At the time I was focused in a Seaside based SaaS that I started in 2009 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Z29q5PUoJs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Z29q5PUoJs Although that SaaS had very low churn and very long LTV and low CAC, I failed to raise money to grow it and I've failed to find the right growth guy that could help and shutdown in 2015. My bet was to use that flow stack to make this SaaS next big upgrade to be a Single Page Application done with Amber in the frontend but didn't go well due to these non-technical issues. Then Angular was eating the web world and the React tsunami was just started. It's funny to see that now there is a come back to SSR.

pacifika 3y ago

Couldn’t easily find any code samples so left it last time this came up. Would appreciate a pointer? Thanks

em-bee 3y ago

i love smalltalk, but i mainly do web development, and i was curious to do frontend development in smalltalk, so amber looked interesting. but i could not see how to do frontend only development. i am not interested in fullstack solutions because they only work for greenfield projects. i mostly build frontends for existing backends with a REST API or similar. existing smalltalk webframeworks are either backend or fullstack, and made no sense for me to use inside amber. an amber frontend framework would essentially be a GUI toolkit that uses html/css templates to design the UI, then smalltalk to fill in the logic with fetch calls to exchange data with arbitrary backends.

lolinder 3y ago
> i am not interested in fullstack solutions because they only work for greenfield projects. i mostly build frontends for existing backends with a REST API or similar. There are probably other reasons to avoid a full stack framework, but this isn't one—there's nothing to stop you from making the backend just a proxy to the existing API. Aside from that, Amber is entirely client-side from what I can see. The Amber server is the equivalent of the Webpack or Vite dev servers, just used during the development process. It looks like Amber compiles to plain JS that runs directly in the browser.
- em-bee 3y ago
  yes, amber is entirely clientside. that is what makes it interesting. but the smalltalk web frameworks are mostly backend frameworks designed to run in pharo or squeak, which means they feel way to bulky and not suited for an SPA web frontend were i want to dynamically update the DOM when data changes instead of generating a whole new page to send to the browser like traditional web frameworks. there's nothing to stop you from making the backend just a proxy to the existing API what is stopping me is that this forces me to run two backends and an additional layer of indirection.
andsoitis 3y ago
you can also check out Cuis Smalltalk, which includes be able to run in the browser using WASM Prior discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38820742 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38820742

scotty79 3y ago

> Smalltalk stands head and shoulders above most other languages for clarity, conciseness, and human-friendliness. Very cool. What if I want to read through printout of your smalltalk program?