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> the super-illegal (but "grey morality") thing he did I'm curious to know what he did given your description. I can think of examples of the reverse: quasi-i

> the super-illegal (but "grey morality") thing he did I'm curious to know what he did given your description. I can think of examples of the reverse: quasi-illegal, but quite immoral.

WatchDog 3y ago
Not the parent commenter, but I would imagine something involving narcotics.
smsm42 3y ago
Drugs? Contraband? Tax evasion? Insider trading? Industrial espionage? Any process crime like "lying to a fed"? If you think about it, we have tons of laws that don't fit into the mold of "hurting specific people" - which would definitely be "black morality" to me - but are more of either "preserving the system as it is" or even "we said it's illegal and so it is". I'm not saying none of those should exist, but I definitely would be willing to look onto some of it as a morally "gray area".
- kridsdale1 3y ago
  It could be “allowed a very hardy and aggressive weed to grow in an area of his property”.
- throwup238 3y ago
  I agree, I just wouldn’t trust a felon to make an unbiased determination about the morality of their actions. The only item on your list that I would say is mostly gray area is insider trading - the rest are very much case dependent. A weed dealer might be gray area but someone who peddles crack cocaine is not. Most people like to think they are good, even when presented with hard evidence that they’re not.
  - SturgeonsLaw 3y ago
    > I just wouldn’t trust a felon to make an unbiased determination about the morality of their actions. I wouldn't trust a single human to be objective about the morality of their actions
  - phpisthebest 3y ago
    Why is a weed dealer a gray area but cocaine not a gray area both are things people are consuming voluntarily into their own body why is one prohibited from consuming cocaine of their own volition but not marijuana I'm of the position it all drugs even medical drugs should be free to consume by anybody I should be able to walk in to CVS and get heart medication if I want or cocaine if I want if CVS is willing to sell it to me it's not for the government to decide nor government licensed agents AKA doctors to decide what I consume into my own body My body my choice
    - throwup238 3y ago
      I didn’t just say cocaine, I said crack cocaine. Crack is cooked by the dealers to be a cheaper and more addictive form of cocaine. I saw first hand what it did to LA in the back half of the last century, so yeah “your body your choice” or whatever you want to tell yourself, but the people dealing it knew what they were doing and it was blatantly immoral. There was no “gray area” about it. They invented a more profitable formula and destroyed their communities to make a little more cash.
    - aghastnj 3y ago
      I agree with you on the "my choice" part. But I also believe that things which remove your choice from the equation are worth extra trouble. Addictive substances are well established as a hazard not just to the individual, but to society. So I think government has an interest in avoiding/preventing/restricting addiction.
    - CodeSgt 3y ago
      Highly addictive drugs destroy lives and families. The little girl who’s father has a heroin addiction sure didn’t get any say in his choice, but she’s affected by it. The citizens of communities ravaged by addiction all suffer, whether they individually consume the drug or not. The idea that drug use is a victimless crime is patently false and all it takes is a few moments of thought to realize it. No, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with adults smoking a joint after work or on the weekends if that’s what they choose to do, but it quickly devolves from there.
btilly 3y ago
I indirectly know someone who fits this description. (Friend of a friend, wouldn't be able to track down.) Was part of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Chanology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Chanology, got caught, went to jail. Yeah, super-illegal. But was it immoral? If you don't know anything about the shady stuff that Scientology did, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QsCrFANMzc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QsCrFANMzc is a great video to start with.
sofixa 3y ago
I can think of stuff like hacking/leaking data about bad things, like a Snowden/Manning/Assange scenario. Or working on/around piracy (cracking software to bypass license checks, hosting a torrent website, etc.).
- busyant 3y ago
  > I can think of stuff like hacking/leaking data about bad things, l I wasn't thinking in that direction, but that totally makes sense. Thanks.

> the super-illegal (but "grey morality") thing he did I'm curious to know what he did given your description. I can think of examples of the reverse: quasi-illegal, but quite immoral.

WatchDog 3y ago

Not the parent commenter, but I would imagine something involving narcotics.

smsm42 3y ago

Drugs? Contraband? Tax evasion? Insider trading? Industrial espionage? Any process crime like "lying to a fed"? If you think about it, we have tons of laws that don't fit into the mold of "hurting specific people" - which would definitely be "black morality" to me - but are more of either "preserving the system as it is" or even "we said it's illegal and so it is". I'm not saying none of those should exist, but I definitely would be willing to look onto some of it as a morally "gray area".

kridsdale1 3y ago
It could be “allowed a very hardy and aggressive weed to grow in an area of his property”.
throwup238 3y ago
I agree, I just wouldn’t trust a felon to make an unbiased determination about the morality of their actions. The only item on your list that I would say is mostly gray area is insider trading - the rest are very much case dependent. A weed dealer might be gray area but someone who peddles crack cocaine is not. Most people like to think they are good, even when presented with hard evidence that they’re not.
- SturgeonsLaw 3y ago
  > I just wouldn’t trust a felon to make an unbiased determination about the morality of their actions. I wouldn't trust a single human to be objective about the morality of their actions
- phpisthebest 3y ago
  Why is a weed dealer a gray area but cocaine not a gray area both are things people are consuming voluntarily into their own body why is one prohibited from consuming cocaine of their own volition but not marijuana I'm of the position it all drugs even medical drugs should be free to consume by anybody I should be able to walk in to CVS and get heart medication if I want or cocaine if I want if CVS is willing to sell it to me it's not for the government to decide nor government licensed agents AKA doctors to decide what I consume into my own body My body my choice
  - throwup238 3y ago
    I didn’t just say cocaine, I said crack cocaine. Crack is cooked by the dealers to be a cheaper and more addictive form of cocaine. I saw first hand what it did to LA in the back half of the last century, so yeah “your body your choice” or whatever you want to tell yourself, but the people dealing it knew what they were doing and it was blatantly immoral. There was no “gray area” about it. They invented a more profitable formula and destroyed their communities to make a little more cash.
  - aghastnj 3y ago
    I agree with you on the "my choice" part. But I also believe that things which remove your choice from the equation are worth extra trouble. Addictive substances are well established as a hazard not just to the individual, but to society. So I think government has an interest in avoiding/preventing/restricting addiction.
  - CodeSgt 3y ago
    Highly addictive drugs destroy lives and families. The little girl who’s father has a heroin addiction sure didn’t get any say in his choice, but she’s affected by it. The citizens of communities ravaged by addiction all suffer, whether they individually consume the drug or not. The idea that drug use is a victimless crime is patently false and all it takes is a few moments of thought to realize it. No, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with adults smoking a joint after work or on the weekends if that’s what they choose to do, but it quickly devolves from there.

btilly 3y ago

I indirectly know someone who fits this description. (Friend of a friend, wouldn't be able to track down.) Was part of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Chanology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Chanology, got caught, went to jail. Yeah, super-illegal. But was it immoral? If you don't know anything about the shady stuff that Scientology did, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QsCrFANMzc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QsCrFANMzc is a great video to start with.

sofixa 3y ago

I can think of stuff like hacking/leaking data about bad things, like a Snowden/Manning/Assange scenario. Or working on/around piracy (cracking software to bypass license checks, hosting a torrent website, etc.).

busyant 3y ago
> I can think of stuff like hacking/leaking data about bad things, l I wasn't thinking in that direction, but that totally makes sense. Thanks.