4 ms·

I saw it stated as pronounced as Veert, somewhere, maybe in his Wikipedia or Wikiquote pages.

by vram22 3y ago

nwellnhof 3y ago
It's pronounced with an ɪ like in "wit".
- vram22 3y ago
  Okay, either me or the ref. may have been wrong. but I distinctly remember "Veert", because it was non-intuitive to me (as the way to pronounce Wirth), as a guy who didn't know any German at the time, only English. So the ref., probably.
  - housecarpenter 3y ago
    It's not really wrong. There are English accents (such as Received Pronunciation) where an "ee" before an "r" is normally pronounced with an [ɪ] like in "wit". In any case, even if you pronounce the "ee" as something else like [i], "Veert" is probably still the sequence of letters that maximises the likelihood that an English speaker will understand by it something close to the true German pronunciation ([vɪʁt] or [vɪɐt]). "Virt", for example, would be read by most people as [vɜrt] (rhyming with "hurt") which to my ear is further off from the correct pronunciation compared to something like [viət].
  - denton-scratch 3y ago
    "Veert" is correct, in the sense that it's how a German would pronounce it. Of course, the great man wasn't German; I don't know how he pronounced his own surname. "Wit" is just wrong. Perhaps that was a joke that I missed about the man's humour.
    - G3rn0ti 3y ago
      > Of course, the great man wasn't German. He was Swiss, more exactly from the city of Winterthur located in the canton (state) of Zürich. The canton's official language is German, however. Of course, people over there speak in a strong local dialect called "Züritüütsch".
      - denton-scratch 3y ago
        Thank you for the correction. I assumed he spoke a variant of american-english. So how did he pronounce his own name? I've never heard his voice. > a strong local dialect called "Züritüütsch". Damn, I've never seen a word with three u-umlauts in it. How the hell do you pronounce two consecutive u-umlauts? "eu-eu"?
        G3rn0ti 3y ago
        You just elongate the vowel i.e. pronounce it longer. The double „ü“ just indicates this vowel to be stressed. Dialects do not follow a strict orthography, however, so you might find it written slightly differently in other contexts. Wirth lived in the United States for some time throughout his life but is a Zürich native. He must have spoken Züritüütsch („Zurich German“) privately, I am pretty sure (without having known him personally).
        CRConrad 3y ago
        Umlauts aren't diphtongs; it's the same sound all the way through. GP used two consecutive ones in order to show that the sound is long. (And whaddoino, if the dialect has an official orthography, maybe that's how it's supposed to be spelled.)
- dotancohen 3y ago
  I think that the "i" sound like in "wit" does not exist in German. The Germans pronounce "i" like English speakers pronounce "ee".
  - housecarpenter 3y ago
    The "i" sound in "wit" does exist in German and is what is normally indicated by "i" on its own. The long "ee" sound is normally spelt as "ie" in German.
    - dotancohen 3y ago
      Thank you.
  - jstimpfle 3y ago
    We have both, and I'd tend to pronounce "Wirth" similar to "wit" as far as the "i" goes. It's not always clear just from looking at the letter. But some words have explicit cues: There are "stretching consonants" like a-a, a-h, e-e, e-h, i-e, i-h, etc: Aal, Kahn, dehnen, dienen, sühnen, etc. And sometimes the following consonant gets doubled up to indicate a shorter pronunciation, like in "Bitte".
    - dotancohen 3y ago
      Thank you.
  - CRConrad 3y ago
    And what's the difference? AFAICT it's pretty much exactly the same sound, except in one case it's longer, in the other shorter. Say "bit"... Then say it again, only looonger... And you get "beet". Say "wit", but longer, and you get "wheat".
Thorrez 3y ago
The linked tweet says "Whereas Europeans generally pronounce my name the right way ('Ni-klows Wirt'), Americans invariably mangle it into 'Nick-les Worth'. This is to say that Europeans call me by name, but Americans call me by value."

I saw it stated as pronounced as Veert, somewhere, maybe in his Wikipedia or Wikiquote pages.

by vram22 3y ago

I saw it stated as pronounced as Veert, somewhere, maybe in his Wikipedia or Wikiquote pages.

nwellnhof 3y ago

It's pronounced with an ɪ like in "wit".

vram22 3y ago
Okay, either me or the ref. may have been wrong. but I distinctly remember "Veert", because it was non-intuitive to me (as the way to pronounce Wirth), as a guy who didn't know any German at the time, only English. So the ref., probably.
- housecarpenter 3y ago
  It's not really wrong. There are English accents (such as Received Pronunciation) where an "ee" before an "r" is normally pronounced with an [ɪ] like in "wit". In any case, even if you pronounce the "ee" as something else like [i], "Veert" is probably still the sequence of letters that maximises the likelihood that an English speaker will understand by it something close to the true German pronunciation ([vɪʁt] or [vɪɐt]). "Virt", for example, would be read by most people as [vɜrt] (rhyming with "hurt") which to my ear is further off from the correct pronunciation compared to something like [viət].
- denton-scratch 3y ago
  "Veert" is correct, in the sense that it's how a German would pronounce it. Of course, the great man wasn't German; I don't know how he pronounced his own surname. "Wit" is just wrong. Perhaps that was a joke that I missed about the man's humour.
  - G3rn0ti 3y ago
    > Of course, the great man wasn't German. He was Swiss, more exactly from the city of Winterthur located in the canton (state) of Zürich. The canton's official language is German, however. Of course, people over there speak in a strong local dialect called "Züritüütsch".
    - denton-scratch 3y ago
      Thank you for the correction. I assumed he spoke a variant of american-english. So how did he pronounce his own name? I've never heard his voice. > a strong local dialect called "Züritüütsch". Damn, I've never seen a word with three u-umlauts in it. How the hell do you pronounce two consecutive u-umlauts? "eu-eu"?
      - G3rn0ti 3y ago
        You just elongate the vowel i.e. pronounce it longer. The double „ü“ just indicates this vowel to be stressed. Dialects do not follow a strict orthography, however, so you might find it written slightly differently in other contexts. Wirth lived in the United States for some time throughout his life but is a Zürich native. He must have spoken Züritüütsch („Zurich German“) privately, I am pretty sure (without having known him personally).
      - CRConrad 3y ago
        Umlauts aren't diphtongs; it's the same sound all the way through. GP used two consecutive ones in order to show that the sound is long. (And whaddoino, if the dialect has an official orthography, maybe that's how it's supposed to be spelled.)
dotancohen 3y ago
I think that the "i" sound like in "wit" does not exist in German. The Germans pronounce "i" like English speakers pronounce "ee".
- housecarpenter 3y ago
  The "i" sound in "wit" does exist in German and is what is normally indicated by "i" on its own. The long "ee" sound is normally spelt as "ie" in German.
  - dotancohen 3y ago
    Thank you.
- jstimpfle 3y ago
  We have both, and I'd tend to pronounce "Wirth" similar to "wit" as far as the "i" goes. It's not always clear just from looking at the letter. But some words have explicit cues: There are "stretching consonants" like a-a, a-h, e-e, e-h, i-e, i-h, etc: Aal, Kahn, dehnen, dienen, sühnen, etc. And sometimes the following consonant gets doubled up to indicate a shorter pronunciation, like in "Bitte".
  - dotancohen 3y ago
    Thank you.
- CRConrad 3y ago
  And what's the difference? AFAICT it's pretty much exactly the same sound, except in one case it's longer, in the other shorter. Say "bit"... Then say it again, only looonger... And you get "beet". Say "wit", but longer, and you get "wheat".

Thorrez 3y ago

The linked tweet says "Whereas Europeans generally pronounce my name the right way ('Ni-klows Wirt'), Americans invariably mangle it into 'Nick-les Worth'. This is to say that Europeans call me by name, but Americans call me by value."