4 ms·

Or just legalize 'neglect' (aka letting school age children be latchkey again without someone constantly lording over them). This bizarre and historically unpr

Or just legalize 'neglect' (aka letting school age children be latchkey again without someone constantly lording over them). This bizarre and historically unprecedented scenario where parents simultaneously must both work but be prosecuted for doing so will likely be a blip in history.

jonathankoren 3y ago
You can reliably get a young kid to come home by themselves. You can't reliably get a young kid to go to school by themselves.
- cjfd 3y ago
  I started going to school all by myself, on bike, starting age 6 and did so reliably.
  - beaeglebeached 3y ago
    As did I by middle school, which is the earliest age the article actually focused on.
    - seba_dos1 3y ago
      I'd rather ask: who didn't? The only reason to not come to school on your own by that age is if the school is far away and hard to get to by public transport, which usually isn't the case.
      - blahedo 3y ago
        > which usually isn't the case Where do you live? There are many, many places in the US where it is indeed usually the case. (Possibly depending on your definition of "far away")
        seba_dos1 3y ago
        I live in Poland. Wherever the distance to your nearest school is more than 4 kilometers (or 3 kilometers in the early grades), the municipality has to provide transport - which is usually the case only in rural areas. In cities you'll most likely have multiple schools within 1km, which is perfectly walkable even for younger children. The high school I went to was 3.5km away from my home and I was getting there by tram, but if I went to the nearest one it would be 250m away, just like the primary school I went to. Same with kindergarten in fact, but IIRC I wasn't going there on my own back then. I live in suburbs now and the nearest primary school is 700m away - no reason to drive (nor walk) a ~10yo kid to their school here either. (for the record: primary school encompasses what US calls elementary and middle schools here) My very liberal definition of "far away" would probably be something like "more than 1.5km" (the distance I was going by foot to a swimming pool as a kid), more if we consider public transport and bikes too - though those of course won't necessarily be viable options everywhere and at every age.
  - scns 3y ago
    Did so, from my second day of school, on foot.
  - CrazyStat 3y ago
    I also walked myself to school starting at 6. It was only a couple blocks, but I was responsible for getting myself there on time.
- willcipriano 3y ago
  Kids used to run entire farms unsupervised for weeks at a time. They are as capable as you allow them to be.
- PaulHoule 3y ago
  My dad was walking to school around 1948.
- vondur 3y ago
  I started walking to school in the 5th grade here in the US. My Mom never liked driving and gave it up.
- function_seven 3y ago
  I started riding my bike to school in the 4th grade. Would have done so earlier, but the bike racks at school were off-limits until that grade.
  - trgn 3y ago
    your school at least had bike racks.
- IggleSniggle 3y ago
  I'm sure that's true for some kids. But it's also true that many young kids are perfectly capable, although perhaps not all environments are conducive to this. I walked approximately half a mile to kindergarten with a friend every day, starting at age 5. I never had an issue with tardiness until high school, when I started driving. Some of my fondest childhood memories involve conversations with peers from these walks. I think it's an incredible shame that I can't let my children do the same, even at 8, and even though my 8yo is miles more mature than I was at his age.
- em-bee 3y ago
  being late for school had consequences that most kids would try to avoid, so no, if a kid is capable to come home on their own, they are also capable to go to school on their own. at one point my oldest was in a school that did not allow kids to go to school or go home on their own. so in the afternoon i had to go to the school and pick him up. they would not let him leave until i showed up. however they could not force me to accompany him in the morning. because, well, what were they going to do when the kid was at the school gate and i wasn't there?
lolinder 3y ago
For those who haven't found it, Let Grow [0] is a great organization pushing for this kind of change. They have resources for parents and have actively worked with a number of states to get free range kids laws on the books. [0] https://letgrow.org/ https://letgrow.org/
ShadowBanThis01 3y ago
I don't know. It seems to be getting worse. Entire neighborhoods now come to a standstill because hundreds of giant cars converge on a school to deliver or pick up one kid at a time. And this is in L.A., home to probably the least-challenging weather in the country. We have entire generations of junior-high and high-school kids who are apparently too feeble to ride their bikes, walk, or take the bus to school. Pathetic.
- entropicdrifter 3y ago
  You really think the kids are the ones with the agency to cause this kind of cultural shift, as opposed to changes in parenting culture?
  - ShadowBanThis01 3y ago
    Did anyone claim that?
- pengaru 3y ago
  > And this is in L.A., home to probably the least-challenging weather in the country. We have entire generations of junior-high and high-school kids who are apparently too feeble to ride their bikes, walk, or take the bus to school. Pathetic. Weather is a minor factor vs. the population-size/density/quality of a place like LA. Just watch some of the George Floyd protest videos from LA to get a sense of what likely really concerns LA parents. No amount of snow, sleet, wind, and sub-zero temps can hold a candle to those apocalyptic scenes.
  - ShadowBanThis01 3y ago
    L.A. is a giant county masquerading as a city, spread out with many areas' density being that which is generally called "suburban." Nobody is advocating sending kids out into a riot. So that leaves... I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say probably 364.8 riot-free days a year suitable for playing or moving about outside.
    - 3y ago

jonathankoren 3y ago

You can reliably get a young kid to come home by themselves. You can't reliably get a young kid to go to school by themselves.

cjfd 3y ago
I started going to school all by myself, on bike, starting age 6 and did so reliably.
- beaeglebeached 3y ago
  As did I by middle school, which is the earliest age the article actually focused on.
  - seba_dos1 3y ago
    I'd rather ask: who didn't? The only reason to not come to school on your own by that age is if the school is far away and hard to get to by public transport, which usually isn't the case.
    - blahedo 3y ago
      > which usually isn't the case Where do you live? There are many, many places in the US where it is indeed usually the case. (Possibly depending on your definition of "far away")
      - seba_dos1 3y ago
        I live in Poland. Wherever the distance to your nearest school is more than 4 kilometers (or 3 kilometers in the early grades), the municipality has to provide transport - which is usually the case only in rural areas. In cities you'll most likely have multiple schools within 1km, which is perfectly walkable even for younger children. The high school I went to was 3.5km away from my home and I was getting there by tram, but if I went to the nearest one it would be 250m away, just like the primary school I went to. Same with kindergarten in fact, but IIRC I wasn't going there on my own back then. I live in suburbs now and the nearest primary school is 700m away - no reason to drive (nor walk) a ~10yo kid to their school here either. (for the record: primary school encompasses what US calls elementary and middle schools here) My very liberal definition of "far away" would probably be something like "more than 1.5km" (the distance I was going by foot to a swimming pool as a kid), more if we consider public transport and bikes too - though those of course won't necessarily be viable options everywhere and at every age.
- scns 3y ago
  Did so, from my second day of school, on foot.
- CrazyStat 3y ago
  I also walked myself to school starting at 6. It was only a couple blocks, but I was responsible for getting myself there on time.
willcipriano 3y ago
Kids used to run entire farms unsupervised for weeks at a time. They are as capable as you allow them to be.
PaulHoule 3y ago
My dad was walking to school around 1948.
vondur 3y ago
I started walking to school in the 5th grade here in the US. My Mom never liked driving and gave it up.
function_seven 3y ago
I started riding my bike to school in the 4th grade. Would have done so earlier, but the bike racks at school were off-limits until that grade.
- trgn 3y ago
  your school at least had bike racks.
IggleSniggle 3y ago
I'm sure that's true for some kids. But it's also true that many young kids are perfectly capable, although perhaps not all environments are conducive to this. I walked approximately half a mile to kindergarten with a friend every day, starting at age 5. I never had an issue with tardiness until high school, when I started driving. Some of my fondest childhood memories involve conversations with peers from these walks. I think it's an incredible shame that I can't let my children do the same, even at 8, and even though my 8yo is miles more mature than I was at his age.
em-bee 3y ago
being late for school had consequences that most kids would try to avoid, so no, if a kid is capable to come home on their own, they are also capable to go to school on their own. at one point my oldest was in a school that did not allow kids to go to school or go home on their own. so in the afternoon i had to go to the school and pick him up. they would not let him leave until i showed up. however they could not force me to accompany him in the morning. because, well, what were they going to do when the kid was at the school gate and i wasn't there?

lolinder 3y ago

For those who haven't found it, Let Grow [0] is a great organization pushing for this kind of change. They have resources for parents and have actively worked with a number of states to get free range kids laws on the books. [0] https://letgrow.org/ https://letgrow.org/

ShadowBanThis01 3y ago

I don't know. It seems to be getting worse. Entire neighborhoods now come to a standstill because hundreds of giant cars converge on a school to deliver or pick up one kid at a time. And this is in L.A., home to probably the least-challenging weather in the country. We have entire generations of junior-high and high-school kids who are apparently too feeble to ride their bikes, walk, or take the bus to school. Pathetic.

entropicdrifter 3y ago
You really think the kids are the ones with the agency to cause this kind of cultural shift, as opposed to changes in parenting culture?
- ShadowBanThis01 3y ago
  Did anyone claim that?
pengaru 3y ago
> And this is in L.A., home to probably the least-challenging weather in the country. We have entire generations of junior-high and high-school kids who are apparently too feeble to ride their bikes, walk, or take the bus to school. Pathetic. Weather is a minor factor vs. the population-size/density/quality of a place like LA. Just watch some of the George Floyd protest videos from LA to get a sense of what likely really concerns LA parents. No amount of snow, sleet, wind, and sub-zero temps can hold a candle to those apocalyptic scenes.
- ShadowBanThis01 3y ago
  L.A. is a giant county masquerading as a city, spread out with many areas' density being that which is generally called "suburban." Nobody is advocating sending kids out into a riot. So that leaves... I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say probably 364.8 riot-free days a year suitable for playing or moving about outside.
  - 3y ago