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The primary function of state funded K-12 is childcare to enable two parents to work. Unless and until that is not the case, school will start earlier than pare

• beaeglebeached 3y ago
  Or just legalize 'neglect' (aka letting school age children be latchkey again without someone constantly lording over them). This bizarre and historically unprecedented scenario where parents simultaneously must both work but be prosecuted for doing so will likely be a blip in history.
  • jonathankoren 3y ago
    You can reliably get a young kid to come home by themselves. You can't reliably get a young kid to go to school by themselves.
    • cjfd 3y ago
      I started going to school all by myself, on bike, starting age 6 and did so reliably.
      • beaeglebeached 3y ago
        As did I by middle school, which is the earliest age the article actually focused on.
        • seba_dos1 3y ago
          I'd rather ask: who didn't? The only reason to not come to school on your own by that age is if the school is far away and hard to get to by public transport, which usually isn't the case.
          • blahedo 3y ago
            > which usually isn't the case Where do you live? There are many, many places in the US where it is indeed usually the case. (Possibly depending on your definition of "far away")
            • seba_dos1 3y ago
              I live in Poland. Wherever the distance to your nearest school is more than 4 kilometers (or 3 kilometers in the early grades), the municipality has to provide transport - which is usually the case only in rural areas. In cities you'll most likely have multiple schools within 1km, which is perfectly walkable even for younger children. The high school I went to was 3.5km away from my home and I was getting there by tram, but if I went to the nearest one it would be 250m away, just like the primary school I went to. Same with kindergarten in fact, but IIRC I wasn't going there on my own back then. I live in suburbs now and the nearest primary school is 700m away - no reason to drive (nor walk) a ~10yo kid to their school here either. (for the record: primary school encompasses what US calls elementary and middle schools here) My very liberal definition of "far away" would probably be something like "more than 1.5km" (the distance I was going by foot to a swimming pool as a kid), more if we consider public transport and bikes too - though those of course won't necessarily be viable options everywhere and at every age.
      • scns 3y ago
        Did so, from my second day of school, on foot.
      • CrazyStat 3y ago
        I also walked myself to school starting at 6. It was only a couple blocks, but I was responsible for getting myself there on time.
    • willcipriano 3y ago
      Kids used to run entire farms unsupervised for weeks at a time. They are as capable as you allow them to be.
    • PaulHoule 3y ago
      My dad was walking to school around 1948.
    • vondur 3y ago
      I started walking to school in the 5th grade here in the US. My Mom never liked driving and gave it up.
    • function_seven 3y ago
      I started riding my bike to school in the 4th grade. Would have done so earlier, but the bike racks at school were off-limits until that grade.
      • trgn 3y ago
        your school at least had bike racks.
    • IggleSniggle 3y ago
      I'm sure that's true for some kids. But it's also true that many young kids are perfectly capable, although perhaps not all environments are conducive to this. I walked approximately half a mile to kindergarten with a friend every day, starting at age 5. I never had an issue with tardiness until high school, when I started driving. Some of my fondest childhood memories involve conversations with peers from these walks. I think it's an incredible shame that I can't let my children do the same, even at 8, and even though my 8yo is miles more mature than I was at his age.
    • em-bee 3y ago
      being late for school had consequences that most kids would try to avoid, so no, if a kid is capable to come home on their own, they are also capable to go to school on their own. at one point my oldest was in a school that did not allow kids to go to school or go home on their own. so in the afternoon i had to go to the school and pick him up. they would not let him leave until i showed up. however they could not force me to accompany him in the morning. because, well, what were they going to do when the kid was at the school gate and i wasn't there?
  • lolinder 3y ago
    For those who haven't found it, Let Grow [0] is a great organization pushing for this kind of change. They have resources for parents and have actively worked with a number of states to get free range kids laws on the books. [0] https://letgrow.org/ https://letgrow.org/
  • ShadowBanThis01 3y ago
    I don't know. It seems to be getting worse. Entire neighborhoods now come to a standstill because hundreds of giant cars converge on a school to deliver or pick up one kid at a time. And this is in L.A., home to probably the least-challenging weather in the country. We have entire generations of junior-high and high-school kids who are apparently too feeble to ride their bikes, walk, or take the bus to school. Pathetic.
    • entropicdrifter 3y ago
      You really think the kids are the ones with the agency to cause this kind of cultural shift, as opposed to changes in parenting culture?
      • ShadowBanThis01 3y ago
        Did anyone claim that?
    • pengaru 3y ago
      > And this is in L.A., home to probably the least-challenging weather in the country. We have entire generations of junior-high and high-school kids who are apparently too feeble to ride their bikes, walk, or take the bus to school. Pathetic. Weather is a minor factor vs. the population-size/density/quality of a place like LA. Just watch some of the George Floyd protest videos from LA to get a sense of what likely really concerns LA parents. No amount of snow, sleet, wind, and sub-zero temps can hold a candle to those apocalyptic scenes.
      • ShadowBanThis01 3y ago
        L.A. is a giant county masquerading as a city, spread out with many areas' density being that which is generally called "suburban." Nobody is advocating sending kids out into a riot. So that leaves... I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say probably 364.8 riot-free days a year suitable for playing or moving about outside.
        • 3y ago
• macspoofing 3y ago
  >The primary function of state funded K-12 is childcare to enable two parents to work. That's the PRIMARY function, eh?
  • panzagl 3y ago
    Its not the stated function, but does appear to be the primary function.
    • s1artibartfast 3y ago
      I think that is a cynical and incorrect take. If babysitting was the primary function, there are much cheaper and easier ways to achieve it. Given that the vast majority of cost and effort is spent on the educational aspect, I would argue that is indeed the primary function. Additionally, if you look to history, schooling originated long before the need for babysitting.
      • whythre 3y ago
        Baby-sitting has always existed as a need; in the past it may have been done by various family members, but the modern ‘daycare’ model has its roots in the Industrial Revolution: as long as there have been machines for both parents to work, there has been someone offering to watch their kids for Money. Industrializing England had ‘baby mills’ where working class mothers could leave their kids (often in appalling conditions). The initial argument for public education was civics- if you want a nation of competent and driven citizens, they need to be armed with a good, comprehensive education. A lot changed in the Post-War era. Women entered the workforce, and the role of the public school has mutated to the point that many families depend upon it as the primary caregiver for non infant children (hence the complaints when the school week gets shortened from 5 days to 4). Also you seem to believe that school being expensive somehow guarantees it’s primary purpose is education. Many districts spend that money incredibly inefficiently. We have lots of touchscreen devices and giant stadiums. And yet teachers are forced to provide their own basic school supplies for the kids every year. Ancient musical instruments failing in kids hands due to rot. It’s really not good out there.
• gmm1990 3y ago
  the article states the recommendation is for middle and high school students so maybe a little overlap. I assume most kids can be autonomous when they are in high school.
• ShadowBanThis01 3y ago
  But starting absurdly early presumably means kids get OUT absurdly early, so it doesn't solve the work problem.
  • ejb999 3y ago
    and that is why after school programs exist - start school later, then you need before school activities instead - which doesn't solve any problem.
    • ShadowBanThis01 3y ago
      If your job doesn't allow you to get your kid to school at 8:30 and no earlier, you need a job that treats you like an adult. + Sad that some downtrodden drones try to bury this sentiment instead of demanding better treatment.
      • deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
• Sohcahtoa82 3y ago
  I would not call it the primary function, as state-funded K-12 has existed far longer than dual-income families. Though I admit I'm just making this up and I could be completely wrong. How common was it to mothers to work in the 60s, 50s, and before? Was state-funded K-12 as ubiquitous back then as it is now?
  • throwaway17_17 3y ago
    It is my understanding that in general the ‘mandatory’ nature of education was less enforced prior to ~mid-70’s. Especially when considering rural, and agriculturally intense, locales.
    • op00to 3y ago
      Imagery of Dennis the Menace from the 50s and 60s getting taken to school by a truancy officer begs to differ.
      • dragonwriter 3y ago
        Cartoons often are not a reliable basis for assessing actual practices. All those comics indicate is that most people would understand, in context, the notional function, it tells you nothing about the degree of practical enforcement.
    • mikestew 3y ago
      I grew up in Indiana, literally in the middle of cornfields. Farm kids went to school, and sometimes smelled like they'd just got done with chores. But no one to my knowledge got cut slack because they had farm work to do. And what parent wants their kid to grow up uneducated? Even if they're supposed to grow up and take over the farm later, you'll never go to Purdue for that ag degree if you don't go to high school. Granted, just one piece of anecdata from just one U. S. state. But without evidence to the contrary, I'm having a hard time picturing any adult in the process, parents or school employee, being content with uneducated ignoramuses as long as they get the pigs fed.
• tesdinger 3y ago
  If that is the case then the children could simply stay at home and leave later.
• wharvle 3y ago
  Schools in my area start elementary schools way too late for that, unless you're paying for pre-care and not using the bus. They do this so high school—and nb many high schoolers can get themselves to school in the morning, so parents don't necessarily have to be home for that—can start earlier (no district has so many buses they can start all schools around the same time—they have to stagger them), to leave more time after school for sports practice and other extracurriculars (but really, for sports). > If it started later, that time would be replaced with pre-school care/activities. Even without ours being the way it is, that would still just mean more time in (typically paid) after-school care. The hours absolutely do not overlap well enough to provide convenience, only relief from part of the cost of childcare.