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Because it’s nice to have practically every amenity possible in easy walking distance I.e 5-10 minutes walk. Probably 20 restaurants, 20 small shops, coffee sh

by mint2 3y ago

Because it’s nice to have practically every amenity possible in easy walking distance I.e 5-10 minutes walk. Probably 20 restaurants, 20 small shops, coffee shops, ups, usps, fedex, hardware stores, museums, parks etc etc all within 10 minutes walk. It’s nice not having to drive for everyday errands. driving and parking is soul draining and causes suburbs to be ugly, not to mention freeways. Those are ugly as sin.

chung8123 3y ago
You don't need all of that to have every amenity at a walking distance. I live in the suburbs and I still have almost every amenity walking distance. Do I need 20 restaurants and coffee shops? Having space for your hobbies is nice so if your priority is hobbies that need space living out of the city is nice. If your priority is going out for things it is probably better to live in the city.
- dionidium 3y ago
  > Do I need 20 restaurants and coffee shops? That should be up to individuals, not central planners.
  - chung8123 3y ago
    Agreed. I don't think anyone is disputing that.
- rcpt 3y ago
  > live in the suburbs and I still have almost every amenity walking distance Are you sure you live in a suburb?
  - chung8123 3y ago
    Of course I am sure. If you plan where you live you can live in the suburbs just fine and still be able to walk most places. I have done it in the last few places I have lived. They even have bus routes. Suburbs can be walk-able for those that make it a priority. Many don't care and will pick their homes with different criteria.
    - bombcar 3y ago
      The core of the fight comes down to “others use criteria I don’t like so I must force them to choose as I do”.
  - enobrev 3y ago
    One that comes to mind is Arlington Heights, IL, a suburb to Chicago. It's very walkable and the places you can walk to are work walking to. My wife and I had to spend a week there and had lots of great meals throughout the day at various places, with lots of amenities for day-to-day life. I was born, raised, lived in many, and will likely die in a city - but I just wanted to chime in to say that not all suburbs are awful.
  - lukas099 3y ago
    There are some suburbs like this, it's just not the norm of how we build anymore. And sometimes the walk is not long, but is not very pleasant.
anamax 3y ago
> Because it’s nice to have practically every amenity possible in easy walking distance I.e 5-10 minutes walk. It might be "nice", but it's not possible without a very restricted definition of "every amenity" and even then there's an assumption that amenities are fungible and you're ignoring efficiency. If there's a grocery store every five minute walk, it's relatively small, which means that it has a crap selection AND it's expensive to run because it doesn't have any economies of scale. (Compare NYC's bodegas with even a crap Walmart and god help you if you're not the dominant community near your bodega.) The number of places to eat/drink within a five minute walk is limited and/or they're tiny. Again, crap selection and no economies of scale. Then consider our musician friends. Do you really think that NYC supports enough instrument stores to have one, let alone a good one, every five minute walk? (Remember, you need guitars, flutes, pianos, etc.) And, musicians aren't special here - the same is true of any interest, such as books.
- snake_doc 3y ago
  You clearly have never lived in convenient (but high costs) parts of Manhattan. A 10min walk/transit window can span 20-40 city blocks depending on the location and transit options. All of your assertions are plain wrong.
  - anamax 3y ago
    > A 10min walk/transit window Move those goal posts. The original claim was "easy walking distance I.e 5-10 minutes walk." > can span 20-40 city blocks 20 NYC blocks is a mile, which is 20 minutes walking. https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/average-walking-speed https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/average-walking-sp... > convenient (but high costs) parts of Manhattan. If it's so efficient and/or desirable, why only a fraction of NYC? The answer is that those areas are a luxury good, with, as you put it, "high cost". Note that the streets, which is the whole of "planning for autos", don't have any effect on what's in the streetfronts. And, since the high cost areas were also "planned for autos" ...
    - noobermin 3y ago
bombcar 3y ago
A ten minute walk is half to 3/4 of a mile. I doubt you can find all those things in that distance except in the densest of cities. And even then you might be quite restricted as similar stores seem to clump together.
- amluto 3y ago
  A 3/4 mile radius is a lot. There are quite a few small cities in the Bay Area that have this and more, although maybe not the museums. And they’re not very dense.
- crazygringo 3y ago
  You definitely can, except for museums which are less common. :) And stores of a kind clumping together is a suburban phenomenon, not an urban one. You're not usually going to find two hardware stores next to each other in a big city, or two UPS stores. Even fast food, which is almost always "clumped" in the suburbs, gets pretty evenly distributed in cities. A McDonald's will just be on a random corner, not as part of a row next to Burger King and KFC.
- HDThoreaun 3y ago
  No it’s not. A 10 minute walk is less than half a mile for an above average walker. Most Americans more like a third of a mile.
- jjav 3y ago
  > A ten minute walk is half to 3/4 of a mile. I doubt you can find all those things in that distance except in the densest of cities. I have all of that (except the museum) within 10 minutes walk in a very suburban (almost rural, but still suburb) area. This myth that you must live in the densest cities (Manhattan or SF) to be able to walk to shops, restaurants and other daily useful things is just a myth.
lotsoweiners 3y ago
I have all of that in 10-15 minute walks in my extremely suburban neighborhood. Hell I’ve got regular full sized grocery store and a super sized grocery store within a 10 minute walk and a super Walmart in a 15 minute walk.
- suburbanwaste 3y ago
  I’ve lived in a development in a suburb where it took 10 minutes’ walk (no sidewalks) to get off the property. Walkable suburbs in the US are by far the exception. They are great though!
codexb 3y ago
Except 100 small shops and restaurants can’t be supported by walk-only pedestrians unless you create super-ultra-dense residential. It’s really nice not to share walls with 4 different neighbors and be able to have a yard and let your kids play outside your house. Residential density is worse in every way for most of the population.
- mint2 3y ago
  That’s wrong. It’s true that areas planned around cars can’t support that number of small shops and restaurants. Actually nearby it’s the street with more car traffic that has the most empty store fronts because everyone hates walking on it. The main issue with the walkable cities is the housing is expensive. The reason for that is demand exceeds supply. People love the cities judging by the absurd house prices in them. It’s just that we don’t have enough of them. A main reason for that is single family zoning and parking minimums.

by mint2 3y ago

chung8123 3y ago

You don't need all of that to have every amenity at a walking distance. I live in the suburbs and I still have almost every amenity walking distance. Do I need 20 restaurants and coffee shops? Having space for your hobbies is nice so if your priority is hobbies that need space living out of the city is nice. If your priority is going out for things it is probably better to live in the city.

dionidium 3y ago
> Do I need 20 restaurants and coffee shops? That should be up to individuals, not central planners.
- chung8123 3y ago
  Agreed. I don't think anyone is disputing that.
rcpt 3y ago
> live in the suburbs and I still have almost every amenity walking distance Are you sure you live in a suburb?
- chung8123 3y ago
  Of course I am sure. If you plan where you live you can live in the suburbs just fine and still be able to walk most places. I have done it in the last few places I have lived. They even have bus routes. Suburbs can be walk-able for those that make it a priority. Many don't care and will pick their homes with different criteria.
  - bombcar 3y ago
    The core of the fight comes down to “others use criteria I don’t like so I must force them to choose as I do”.
- enobrev 3y ago
  One that comes to mind is Arlington Heights, IL, a suburb to Chicago. It's very walkable and the places you can walk to are work walking to. My wife and I had to spend a week there and had lots of great meals throughout the day at various places, with lots of amenities for day-to-day life. I was born, raised, lived in many, and will likely die in a city - but I just wanted to chime in to say that not all suburbs are awful.
- lukas099 3y ago
  There are some suburbs like this, it's just not the norm of how we build anymore. And sometimes the walk is not long, but is not very pleasant.

anamax 3y ago

> Because it’s nice to have practically every amenity possible in easy walking distance I.e 5-10 minutes walk. It might be "nice", but it's not possible without a very restricted definition of "every amenity" and even then there's an assumption that amenities are fungible and you're ignoring efficiency. If there's a grocery store every five minute walk, it's relatively small, which means that it has a crap selection AND it's expensive to run because it doesn't have any economies of scale. (Compare NYC's bodegas with even a crap Walmart and god help you if you're not the dominant community near your bodega.) The number of places to eat/drink within a five minute walk is limited and/or they're tiny. Again, crap selection and no economies of scale. Then consider our musician friends. Do you really think that NYC supports enough instrument stores to have one, let alone a good one, every five minute walk? (Remember, you need guitars, flutes, pianos, etc.) And, musicians aren't special here - the same is true of any interest, such as books.

snake_doc 3y ago
You clearly have never lived in convenient (but high costs) parts of Manhattan. A 10min walk/transit window can span 20-40 city blocks depending on the location and transit options. All of your assertions are plain wrong.
- anamax 3y ago
  > A 10min walk/transit window Move those goal posts. The original claim was "easy walking distance I.e 5-10 minutes walk." > can span 20-40 city blocks 20 NYC blocks is a mile, which is 20 minutes walking. https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/average-walking-speed https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/average-walking-sp... > convenient (but high costs) parts of Manhattan. If it's so efficient and/or desirable, why only a fraction of NYC? The answer is that those areas are a luxury good, with, as you put it, "high cost". Note that the streets, which is the whole of "planning for autos", don't have any effect on what's in the streetfronts. And, since the high cost areas were also "planned for autos" ...
  - noobermin 3y ago

bombcar 3y ago

A ten minute walk is half to 3/4 of a mile. I doubt you can find all those things in that distance except in the densest of cities. And even then you might be quite restricted as similar stores seem to clump together.

amluto 3y ago
A 3/4 mile radius is a lot. There are quite a few small cities in the Bay Area that have this and more, although maybe not the museums. And they’re not very dense.
crazygringo 3y ago
You definitely can, except for museums which are less common. :) And stores of a kind clumping together is a suburban phenomenon, not an urban one. You're not usually going to find two hardware stores next to each other in a big city, or two UPS stores. Even fast food, which is almost always "clumped" in the suburbs, gets pretty evenly distributed in cities. A McDonald's will just be on a random corner, not as part of a row next to Burger King and KFC.
HDThoreaun 3y ago
No it’s not. A 10 minute walk is less than half a mile for an above average walker. Most Americans more like a third of a mile.
jjav 3y ago
> A ten minute walk is half to 3/4 of a mile. I doubt you can find all those things in that distance except in the densest of cities. I have all of that (except the museum) within 10 minutes walk in a very suburban (almost rural, but still suburb) area. This myth that you must live in the densest cities (Manhattan or SF) to be able to walk to shops, restaurants and other daily useful things is just a myth.

lotsoweiners 3y ago

I have all of that in 10-15 minute walks in my extremely suburban neighborhood. Hell I’ve got regular full sized grocery store and a super sized grocery store within a 10 minute walk and a super Walmart in a 15 minute walk.

suburbanwaste 3y ago
I’ve lived in a development in a suburb where it took 10 minutes’ walk (no sidewalks) to get off the property. Walkable suburbs in the US are by far the exception. They are great though!

codexb 3y ago

Except 100 small shops and restaurants can’t be supported by walk-only pedestrians unless you create super-ultra-dense residential. It’s really nice not to share walls with 4 different neighbors and be able to have a yard and let your kids play outside your house. Residential density is worse in every way for most of the population.

mint2 3y ago
That’s wrong. It’s true that areas planned around cars can’t support that number of small shops and restaurants. Actually nearby it’s the street with more car traffic that has the most empty store fronts because everyone hates walking on it. The main issue with the walkable cities is the housing is expensive. The reason for that is demand exceeds supply. People love the cities judging by the absurd house prices in them. It’s just that we don’t have enough of them. A main reason for that is single family zoning and parking minimums.