4 ms·

When did we lose the moral authority to make things illegal for minors? I believe in 50-100 years it will be a worldwide scandal that these skinner boxes were e

by reedf1 3y ago

When did we lose the moral authority to make things illegal for minors? I believe in 50-100 years it will be a worldwide scandal that these skinner boxes were ever given to children let alone adults. AI optimised attention slideshow that likely drains you neurochemically and disrupts your reward circuitry the same way heroin or ecstasy does? On paper this shit should clearly be regulated.

ethanbond 3y ago
One contributing factor is the surprisingly recent meme that corporations exist solely for the benefit of their shareholders. It’s a totally ahistoric and obviously antisocial meme that gets repeated like it’s gospel, even by otherwise intelligent people. This perspective should be literally laughed at and made fun of as a moral system suitable only for the greediest and most myopic among us.
- ndsipa_pomu 3y ago
  Isn't it an inevitable part of Capitalism though? If the directors of a corporation start acting to not maximise the shareholders profits, they'll soon be replaced or the corporation bought out by more ruthless/sociopathic people.
  - ethanbond 3y ago
    The emergence of this idea definitely is guaranteed, but the dominance of it isn’t. There are many countervailing forces that can and should be used, including regulation. One of the forces that I’m advocating for, as I believe it is undervalued and underutilized, is pushback at the cultural level. It is absolutely possible to build truly thriving businesses that include more stakeholders than just shareholders. Costco is a canonical large cap example, but of course there are millions of small businesses who serve their communities much more holistically.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - jl6 3y ago
      What is special about Costco?
  - nonameiguess 3y ago
    There are plenty of examples of companies that have stayed in business for a very long time while being focused on something other than maximizing profits, whether that be prestige, quality, treating employees and customers reasonably well, promoting particular values. In N' Out, Hobby Lobby, Costco, Ferrari, A24. Not saying they're paragons of virtue, but they have missions other than "get as rich as possible" and this hasn't driven them to extinction. Presumably, over some long enough span of time, you need to at least not lose money to stay in business, but money doesn't need to be your only objective.
  - reducesuffering 3y ago
    You only have to maximize shareholders' profits better than the next best CEO, they have no other option. No one is firing Tim Cook because he made a choice that reduced profits 1%.
- cj 3y ago
  Interesting article on this topic: https://corpgov.law.harvard.edu/2019/02/11/towards-accountable-capitalism-remaking-corporate-law-through-stakeholder-governance/ https://corpgov.law.harvard.edu/2019/02/11/towards-accountab...
  - ethanbond 3y ago
    Very interesting indeed! Thank you for sharing.
tenebrisalietum 3y ago
Overdramatic. Social media may be bad but it is not like heroin or ecstasy. Engaging in moral panics, on the other hand, seems to provide a high to some individuals just like heroin or ecstasy. Let's regulate them instead.
- ndsipa_pomu 3y ago
  There's already evidence of the harm caused to teenagers' self esteem due to endless comparisons with peers over social media. This leads to many types of mental illness such as depression, anxiety, eating disorders etc. Considering that we're exposing almost the entire teenage population to these harmful effects, it's hardly overdramatic.
  - tenebrisalietum 3y ago
    Heroin physically alters brain chemistry. It's worse.
    - ndsipa_pomu 3y ago
      Mental illnesses also physically alter brain chemistry and anorexia is arguably far more damaging than heroin. Someone can remain addicted to heroin/opiates for decades whilst still being part of society (it tends to be either impurities or inconsistent quality of heroin that causes deaths). It's unlikely that someone will continue suffering from anorexia for a decade.
      - tenebrisalietum 3y ago
        A conclusion that could be drawn from your statements is this: it's more okay for teenagers to use heroin instead of social media because it's safer. I think people and especially teenagers, even "chronically-online" depressed ones on social media, would laugh at this. They're wrong to do so, of course.
        ndsipa_pomu 3y ago
hindsightbias 3y ago
I'd be a completely different person if I'd grown up under a 21 drinking age. It was often my only social outlet. Even the kids used to go out until the RAVE Act.
lupusreal 3y ago
(When doing "X let alone Y" the more outrageous thing goes in Y.) I strongly agree with your point, it should be possible to ban this stuff for minors at least. Under 13s are already effectively banned but banning all minors altogether would be much more effective.

by reedf1 3y ago

ethanbond 3y ago

One contributing factor is the surprisingly recent meme that corporations exist solely for the benefit of their shareholders. It’s a totally ahistoric and obviously antisocial meme that gets repeated like it’s gospel, even by otherwise intelligent people. This perspective should be literally laughed at and made fun of as a moral system suitable only for the greediest and most myopic among us.

ndsipa_pomu 3y ago
Isn't it an inevitable part of Capitalism though? If the directors of a corporation start acting to not maximise the shareholders profits, they'll soon be replaced or the corporation bought out by more ruthless/sociopathic people.
- ethanbond 3y ago
  The emergence of this idea definitely is guaranteed, but the dominance of it isn’t. There are many countervailing forces that can and should be used, including regulation. One of the forces that I’m advocating for, as I believe it is undervalued and underutilized, is pushback at the cultural level. It is absolutely possible to build truly thriving businesses that include more stakeholders than just shareholders. Costco is a canonical large cap example, but of course there are millions of small businesses who serve their communities much more holistically.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - jl6 3y ago
    What is special about Costco?
- nonameiguess 3y ago
  There are plenty of examples of companies that have stayed in business for a very long time while being focused on something other than maximizing profits, whether that be prestige, quality, treating employees and customers reasonably well, promoting particular values. In N' Out, Hobby Lobby, Costco, Ferrari, A24. Not saying they're paragons of virtue, but they have missions other than "get as rich as possible" and this hasn't driven them to extinction. Presumably, over some long enough span of time, you need to at least not lose money to stay in business, but money doesn't need to be your only objective.
- reducesuffering 3y ago
  You only have to maximize shareholders' profits better than the next best CEO, they have no other option. No one is firing Tim Cook because he made a choice that reduced profits 1%.
cj 3y ago
Interesting article on this topic: https://corpgov.law.harvard.edu/2019/02/11/towards-accountable-capitalism-remaking-corporate-law-through-stakeholder-governance/ https://corpgov.law.harvard.edu/2019/02/11/towards-accountab...
- ethanbond 3y ago
  Very interesting indeed! Thank you for sharing.

tenebrisalietum 3y ago

Overdramatic. Social media may be bad but it is not like heroin or ecstasy. Engaging in moral panics, on the other hand, seems to provide a high to some individuals just like heroin or ecstasy. Let's regulate them instead.

ndsipa_pomu 3y ago
There's already evidence of the harm caused to teenagers' self esteem due to endless comparisons with peers over social media. This leads to many types of mental illness such as depression, anxiety, eating disorders etc. Considering that we're exposing almost the entire teenage population to these harmful effects, it's hardly overdramatic.
- tenebrisalietum 3y ago
  Heroin physically alters brain chemistry. It's worse.
  - ndsipa_pomu 3y ago
    Mental illnesses also physically alter brain chemistry and anorexia is arguably far more damaging than heroin. Someone can remain addicted to heroin/opiates for decades whilst still being part of society (it tends to be either impurities or inconsistent quality of heroin that causes deaths). It's unlikely that someone will continue suffering from anorexia for a decade.
    - tenebrisalietum 3y ago
      A conclusion that could be drawn from your statements is this: it's more okay for teenagers to use heroin instead of social media because it's safer. I think people and especially teenagers, even "chronically-online" depressed ones on social media, would laugh at this. They're wrong to do so, of course.
      - ndsipa_pomu 3y ago

hindsightbias 3y ago

I'd be a completely different person if I'd grown up under a 21 drinking age. It was often my only social outlet. Even the kids used to go out until the RAVE Act.

lupusreal 3y ago

(When doing "X let alone Y" the more outrageous thing goes in Y.) I strongly agree with your point, it should be possible to ban this stuff for minors at least. Under 13s are already effectively banned but banning all minors altogether would be much more effective.