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If anyone has stories of or suggestions for where to emigrate to from the UK I'd be interested. The news of ever increasing state surveillance, rising inequali

If anyone has stories of or suggestions for where to emigrate to from the UK I'd be interested. The news of ever increasing state surveillance, rising inequality, low salaries, privatisation leading to sewage filled waterways and the deliberate destruction of the NHS, revolving door cronyism and the weather contribute to feelings of dissatisfaction. Maybe the grass isn't actually greener elsewhere(?)

jampekka 3y ago
Nordic countries are still relatively nice. And very receptive to "skilled labor" immigration due to the population aging fast. We too are circling the neoliberal drain like UK but are perhaps a decade or so behind. And racism is rising rapidly. :( I'm from a Nordic country but have lived in England. To be frank, in many areas it's a real shithole country, and I'd really not want to live there. Not as bad as USA but getting there fast.
- mp05 3y ago
  >> And racism is rising rapidly >> To be frank, in many areas it's a real shithole country Thanks to Trump, the term "shithole country" has now been termed as a dogwhistle for racists, so I'm genuinely curious as to what you mean when you're calling certain parts of England a shithole?
  - drawfloat 3y ago
    Shocking I know, but what Trump says and American cultural interpretations of it don’t really hold sway over here. Pretty harsh descriptor, but I’m from the North and often have referred to my area as a shithole. It’s not the area’s fault, it’s 40 years of mismanagement and underfunding, but still not a good place.
    - mp05 3y ago
      > Shocking I know Is it? I just asked a question completely in earnest and it seemed to ruffle a few feathers. I thought Trump was the world's problem the last time I checked, oh, every media outlet.
  - bufio 3y ago
    Probably means they're shitholes, because that's what they are.
  - DyslexicAtheist 3y ago
    I've heard this term being used (and I have used it myself) as a dog-whistle to signal how racist others are that are using it. so if one says Britain (the US, or some other place that used to do very well) is turning into a s-hole country the message and accuse goes right back at them. In this case the (racist[1]) Brits who pushed for Brexit, and by doing so have transformed themselves into a s-hole country. in that case it is still a dog-whistle for racists but the tune that is produced is 100% an insult against the people who deserve to hear it. [1] ... "to be absolutely clear it wasn't just racists who voted for Brexit. C'nts did as well! -- Stewart Lee
  - coldtea 3y ago
    "Shithole country" is also a summary judgement of a country's overall condition (GDP, safety, government, corruption, etc). That some pundits called it a "racist dog whistle" doesn't necessarily make it so. What's actually racist (well, technically: "culturally imperialist") is to consider the provincial concerns of US internal politics as some kind of universally applicable yardsticks. People all over the world have used words to the same effect way before Trump and will do it way after Trump. If anything, one could easily call parts of the US a "shithole country" regardless of their racial breakdown. In many parts of the word, locals will gladly admit it for the status of their own (whether racially homogeneous or not) country too.
  - simonbarker87 3y ago
    That expression has been very common in the UK for decades with no dog whistle aspect and, as some one who lives here, there still isn't a dog whistle connotation ... the expression just means run down, dilapidated and a bit ... well, shit. Remember Trump wasn't world president so not everything exports across the Atlantic.
    - mp05 3y ago
      > Remember Trump wasn't world president so not everything exports across the Atlantic. Why would you feel the need to say something like this
  - Symbiote 3y ago
    People who don't live in the US won't be up-to-date with American slang, especially if they don't live in an English-speaking country. It means the country is a shithole: "A very dirty, poor, and unpleasant place" [1]. Britain's infrastructure is noticeably decaying — potholed roads, buildings in a poor state of repair (let alone well-insulated etc), litter, old buses and trains, homeless people sleeping on the street. There's more of this the further one travels from London. [1] https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/shithole https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/shithole
  - gadders 3y ago
    That's a bold assertion. You can't just claim that random things a person allegedly says is racist just because he said it (much like the moral panic about the "OK" signal regularly used by divers).
    - mp05 3y ago
      I'm not asserting anything, I'm just using my eyes: https://www.google.com/search?q=shithole+countries https://www.google.com/search?q=shithole+countries
      - gadders 3y ago
        What a broad spectrum of political views in those news sources listed.
  - jampekka 3y ago
    I'm very well aware of this, but I'm reappropriating it to refer to true shitholes like USA and UK that even with their massive wealth manage to have a lot of suffering.
  - happymellon 3y ago
    But a lot of the UK is a shithole, and it's enabled by the right. What is the current PC way of describing Swansea or Blackpool in American English? If you asked someone who lived here, it would be shithole.
  - southernplaces7 3y ago
    You'll move along much faster in understanding people from diverse cultures if you don't start by imposing your own country's uniquely absurd cultural biases on widely used phrases that probably have nothing to do with them.
    - mp05 3y ago
      > You'll move along much faster in understanding people from diverse cultures if you Okay thanks for the advice!!
- weego 3y ago
  Finland is the country I've targeted for if I eventually want to leave the UK.
  - jampekka 3y ago
    I'm from Finland, wellcome! People are perhaps a bit more withdrawn than in UK, but e.g. the sense of humor is very similar and I get along great with UK people. And about everybody speaks English. And of course it's really fucking cold and dark in the winter. But at least it's warm indoors, unlike in England.
    - CommanderData 3y ago
      > at least it's warm indoors, unlike in England. Haha, that hit very hard after speaking to a home developer at how dire the building regulations are in the UK compared to the EU or even the US with the gov actively subverting better building efficiency regs. Cronyism is rife in the UK, it's so open it stinks.
  - moffkalast 3y ago
    How come -40 degree weather, hardly any sunlight, introvert culture, mandatory conscription, and looming threat of Russia doing something funni aren't a dealbreakers? I'm not sure I'd ever consider moving there myself.
    - Eisenstein 3y ago
      > -40 weather Once it gets below -20 it doesn't really matter. Also, saunas. > hardly any sunlight No need for blackout curtains. Don't see this as a minus. > introvert culture That has pluses and minuses. > mandatory conscription I think everyone should be forced to do some kind of service. Having a trained force is a good idea when faced with... > looming threat of Russia doing something funni I don't think they are going to invade Finland again anytime soon, and Russia can very easily be a threat to any country within ICBM distance.
      - 3y ago
- landosaari 3y ago
  Sorry, have not seen "very receptive". Received a masters degree in STEM from a Nordic country. This somehow rendered me less desirable in being hired? Living on the streets is not what I envisioned while signing up for an university program.
DyslexicAtheist 3y ago
hard to recommend a place that is better than another because surveillance has unequal distribution so time is never in your favor. Countries that have progressed rapidly in their digital transformation are also (generally speaking) further down in their transformation into a "control society". So wherever you go (and unless you chose to start from scratch living on your own farm) it's impossible to escape for very long. Another thing to take into account, is whether legislation has also transformed itself in favor of civil rights during the same time. But can only happen as a second step, and much slower (law when applied needs precedent). Odds that civil rights transform equally fast and fair immediately are nil (and in favor of more tech and more surveillance). To "get out" (if there is such a thing) one would have to move to a place that is far behind in that regard (and even here YMMV because some poor countries transform into control societies ling before they are digitally transformed).
Nextgrid 3y ago
Alternatively, Eastern Europe countries might be an option. It's the same level of shit as the UK, but at least the cost of living appropriately reflects it.
moffkalast 3y ago
I think in the last "which country would you most want to be annexed by" joke survey, the top UK answer was Australia.
tonyedgecombe 3y ago
>rising inequality Inequality has been pretty stable over the last couple of decades: https://www.statista.com/statistics/872472/gini-index-of-the-united-kingdom/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/872472/gini-index-of-the...
intunderflow 3y ago
I moved to Denmark from the UK and I've loved it. Public services are significantly and noticeably better (my doctor once profusely apologised to me that because of resources my referral could not be the same day he made it but had to be the next morning), the tax rate is lower (because of the Tax Scheme for Researchers) the government isn't spending its days on some War on Woke bs and I'm generally much happier. After a year here I've already purchased a home and am planning to stay for the long term :) I have dual UK-EU citizenship which helped.

jampekka 3y ago

Nordic countries are still relatively nice. And very receptive to "skilled labor" immigration due to the population aging fast. We too are circling the neoliberal drain like UK but are perhaps a decade or so behind. And racism is rising rapidly. :( I'm from a Nordic country but have lived in England. To be frank, in many areas it's a real shithole country, and I'd really not want to live there. Not as bad as USA but getting there fast.

mp05 3y ago
>> And racism is rising rapidly >> To be frank, in many areas it's a real shithole country Thanks to Trump, the term "shithole country" has now been termed as a dogwhistle for racists, so I'm genuinely curious as to what you mean when you're calling certain parts of England a shithole?
- drawfloat 3y ago
  Shocking I know, but what Trump says and American cultural interpretations of it don’t really hold sway over here. Pretty harsh descriptor, but I’m from the North and often have referred to my area as a shithole. It’s not the area’s fault, it’s 40 years of mismanagement and underfunding, but still not a good place.
  - mp05 3y ago
    > Shocking I know Is it? I just asked a question completely in earnest and it seemed to ruffle a few feathers. I thought Trump was the world's problem the last time I checked, oh, every media outlet.
- bufio 3y ago
  Probably means they're shitholes, because that's what they are.
- DyslexicAtheist 3y ago
  I've heard this term being used (and I have used it myself) as a dog-whistle to signal how racist others are that are using it. so if one says Britain (the US, or some other place that used to do very well) is turning into a s-hole country the message and accuse goes right back at them. In this case the (racist[1]) Brits who pushed for Brexit, and by doing so have transformed themselves into a s-hole country. in that case it is still a dog-whistle for racists but the tune that is produced is 100% an insult against the people who deserve to hear it. [1] ... "to be absolutely clear it wasn't just racists who voted for Brexit. C'nts did as well! -- Stewart Lee
- coldtea 3y ago
  "Shithole country" is also a summary judgement of a country's overall condition (GDP, safety, government, corruption, etc). That some pundits called it a "racist dog whistle" doesn't necessarily make it so. What's actually racist (well, technically: "culturally imperialist") is to consider the provincial concerns of US internal politics as some kind of universally applicable yardsticks. People all over the world have used words to the same effect way before Trump and will do it way after Trump. If anything, one could easily call parts of the US a "shithole country" regardless of their racial breakdown. In many parts of the word, locals will gladly admit it for the status of their own (whether racially homogeneous or not) country too.
- simonbarker87 3y ago
  That expression has been very common in the UK for decades with no dog whistle aspect and, as some one who lives here, there still isn't a dog whistle connotation ... the expression just means run down, dilapidated and a bit ... well, shit. Remember Trump wasn't world president so not everything exports across the Atlantic.
  - mp05 3y ago
    > Remember Trump wasn't world president so not everything exports across the Atlantic. Why would you feel the need to say something like this
- Symbiote 3y ago
  People who don't live in the US won't be up-to-date with American slang, especially if they don't live in an English-speaking country. It means the country is a shithole: "A very dirty, poor, and unpleasant place" [1]. Britain's infrastructure is noticeably decaying — potholed roads, buildings in a poor state of repair (let alone well-insulated etc), litter, old buses and trains, homeless people sleeping on the street. There's more of this the further one travels from London. [1] https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/shithole https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/shithole
- gadders 3y ago
  That's a bold assertion. You can't just claim that random things a person allegedly says is racist just because he said it (much like the moral panic about the "OK" signal regularly used by divers).
  - mp05 3y ago
    I'm not asserting anything, I'm just using my eyes: https://www.google.com/search?q=shithole+countries https://www.google.com/search?q=shithole+countries
    - gadders 3y ago
      What a broad spectrum of political views in those news sources listed.
- jampekka 3y ago
  I'm very well aware of this, but I'm reappropriating it to refer to true shitholes like USA and UK that even with their massive wealth manage to have a lot of suffering.
- happymellon 3y ago
  But a lot of the UK is a shithole, and it's enabled by the right. What is the current PC way of describing Swansea or Blackpool in American English? If you asked someone who lived here, it would be shithole.
- southernplaces7 3y ago
  You'll move along much faster in understanding people from diverse cultures if you don't start by imposing your own country's uniquely absurd cultural biases on widely used phrases that probably have nothing to do with them.
  - mp05 3y ago
    > You'll move along much faster in understanding people from diverse cultures if you Okay thanks for the advice!!
weego 3y ago
Finland is the country I've targeted for if I eventually want to leave the UK.
- jampekka 3y ago
  I'm from Finland, wellcome! People are perhaps a bit more withdrawn than in UK, but e.g. the sense of humor is very similar and I get along great with UK people. And about everybody speaks English. And of course it's really fucking cold and dark in the winter. But at least it's warm indoors, unlike in England.
  - CommanderData 3y ago
    > at least it's warm indoors, unlike in England. Haha, that hit very hard after speaking to a home developer at how dire the building regulations are in the UK compared to the EU or even the US with the gov actively subverting better building efficiency regs. Cronyism is rife in the UK, it's so open it stinks.
- moffkalast 3y ago
  How come -40 degree weather, hardly any sunlight, introvert culture, mandatory conscription, and looming threat of Russia doing something funni aren't a dealbreakers? I'm not sure I'd ever consider moving there myself.
  - Eisenstein 3y ago
    > -40 weather Once it gets below -20 it doesn't really matter. Also, saunas. > hardly any sunlight No need for blackout curtains. Don't see this as a minus. > introvert culture That has pluses and minuses. > mandatory conscription I think everyone should be forced to do some kind of service. Having a trained force is a good idea when faced with... > looming threat of Russia doing something funni I don't think they are going to invade Finland again anytime soon, and Russia can very easily be a threat to any country within ICBM distance.
    - 3y ago
landosaari 3y ago
Sorry, have not seen "very receptive". Received a masters degree in STEM from a Nordic country. This somehow rendered me less desirable in being hired? Living on the streets is not what I envisioned while signing up for an university program.

DyslexicAtheist 3y ago

hard to recommend a place that is better than another because surveillance has unequal distribution so time is never in your favor. Countries that have progressed rapidly in their digital transformation are also (generally speaking) further down in their transformation into a "control society". So wherever you go (and unless you chose to start from scratch living on your own farm) it's impossible to escape for very long. Another thing to take into account, is whether legislation has also transformed itself in favor of civil rights during the same time. But can only happen as a second step, and much slower (law when applied needs precedent). Odds that civil rights transform equally fast and fair immediately are nil (and in favor of more tech and more surveillance). To "get out" (if there is such a thing) one would have to move to a place that is far behind in that regard (and even here YMMV because some poor countries transform into control societies ling before they are digitally transformed).

Nextgrid 3y ago

Alternatively, Eastern Europe countries might be an option. It's the same level of shit as the UK, but at least the cost of living appropriately reflects it.

moffkalast 3y ago

I think in the last "which country would you most want to be annexed by" joke survey, the top UK answer was Australia.

tonyedgecombe 3y ago

>rising inequality Inequality has been pretty stable over the last couple of decades: https://www.statista.com/statistics/872472/gini-index-of-the-united-kingdom/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/872472/gini-index-of-the...

intunderflow 3y ago

I moved to Denmark from the UK and I've loved it. Public services are significantly and noticeably better (my doctor once profusely apologised to me that because of resources my referral could not be the same day he made it but had to be the next morning), the tax rate is lower (because of the Tax Scheme for Researchers) the government isn't spending its days on some War on Woke bs and I'm generally much happier. After a year here I've already purchased a home and am planning to stay for the long term :) I have dual UK-EU citizenship which helped.