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The UK's energy use per capita has dropped more than 25% since 2000 (which to be honest is a pretty successful energy policy compared to what a move away from c

by roenxi 3y ago

The UK's energy use per capita has dropped more than 25% since 2000 (which to be honest is a pretty successful energy policy compared to what a move away from coal could have been). It is interesting to compare them to Japan where the downtrend isn't anywhere near as marked and is potentially related to some change in energy policy related to 2011 [0]. It would be a lot easier to get people focused on stuff higher up on Maslow's hierarchy, like privacy, if they were warm, comfortable and could afford to manufacture stuff locally. Otherwise they'll probably need to buckle down for some internal strife, shrinking real pie could result in all sorts of weirdness. I'm not sure what the precedent is for a 25% drop in energy. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_in_Japan#Post-Fukushima_nuclear_policy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_in_Japan#Post-Fu...

pjc50 3y ago
Trying to crowbar nuclear in here is ridiculous; the UK has been a surprising renewables success, despite everyone's best efforts, and we're still waiting for Hinkley Point C to be finished. > could afford to manufacture stuff locally "UK manufacturing sector climbs to eighth in world rankings" https://www.themanufacturer.com/articles/uk-manufacturing-sector-climbs-to-eighth-in-world-rankings-make-uk-analysis/ https://www.themanufacturer.com/articles/uk-manufacturing-se... No, the surveillance stuff is pure elite politics and not driven by freezing pensioners.
- roenxi 3y ago
  25% is equivalent to going from an ordinary week to not having energy on weekends. Someone is getting squeezed. Change of that magnitude should tinge the interpretation of all social trends. If I was an elite in the UK, I'd want to be going totalitarian too. Someone should be getting hopping furious; these numbers are comparable to unravelling-of-social-fabric events. Although ironically the totalitarians seem to be outperforming the UK economy; China claims to have overtaken them on a per capita energy basis back in 2020.
  - HPsquared 3y ago
    Less "heavy industry" and more insulation.
  - pjc50 3y ago
    You can't just assert the link without some kind of breakdown. But I agree that people are being squeezed. Energy and housing are becoming crippling costs. The social fabric is fraying. Attempts to blame it all on foreigners are running out of steam, but managing to promote violence along the way. Liz Truss finally broke something the middle class would notice: interest rates. We're due a Labour government which might start to address some of these things. Not surveillance, though. New Labour were very keen on it too.
    - roenxi 3y ago
      I'm not asserting there is a link, I'm a step or two behind that, asserting that if we're going to consider any social change in the UK then it should be done in light of what is probably the biggest influence on living standards. In the UK we see an economy with, y'know, substantial debt. A lot of their alleged assets at the national level are US treasuries which are unreliable stores of wealth [0]. Their ability to secure energy just cratered by ~25% from peak. That is some pretty dire context. Then we have the elites - who are aware of these factors - pushing through extremely heavy surveillance laws. Now it might be that surveillance is cheap these days, but nevertheless the policy disaster that they've engineered needs to be considered as a factor. In their position I'd certainly be tempted by a rats on the sinking ship mentality and the lure of flirting with totalitarianism. [0] With China apparently selling off their debt the UK is trending towards being the 2nd largest holder of US debt. Which is a bit risky given the US is likely to engage the printing presses in a big way.
      - pjc50 3y ago
        https://www.macrotrends.net/2549/pound-dollar-exchange-rate-historical-chart https://www.macrotrends.net/2549/pound-dollar-exchange-rate-... The dollar holds its value better than the pound. US treasuries remain undefeated. > pushing through extremely heavy surveillance laws The thing is, none of this is new. We had extremely heavy surveillance in the 1980s (see Spycatcher, Zircon) and 1970s, back when British troops were murdering civilians on the streets of the UK. The UK surveillance industry always asks for more power. And it's consistently somewhat popular with the public. (aren't you an American?)

by roenxi 3y ago

pjc50 3y ago

Trying to crowbar nuclear in here is ridiculous; the UK has been a surprising renewables success, despite everyone's best efforts, and we're still waiting for Hinkley Point C to be finished. > could afford to manufacture stuff locally "UK manufacturing sector climbs to eighth in world rankings" https://www.themanufacturer.com/articles/uk-manufacturing-sector-climbs-to-eighth-in-world-rankings-make-uk-analysis/ https://www.themanufacturer.com/articles/uk-manufacturing-se... No, the surveillance stuff is pure elite politics and not driven by freezing pensioners.

roenxi 3y ago
25% is equivalent to going from an ordinary week to not having energy on weekends. Someone is getting squeezed. Change of that magnitude should tinge the interpretation of all social trends. If I was an elite in the UK, I'd want to be going totalitarian too. Someone should be getting hopping furious; these numbers are comparable to unravelling-of-social-fabric events. Although ironically the totalitarians seem to be outperforming the UK economy; China claims to have overtaken them on a per capita energy basis back in 2020.
- HPsquared 3y ago
  Less "heavy industry" and more insulation.
- pjc50 3y ago
  You can't just assert the link without some kind of breakdown. But I agree that people are being squeezed. Energy and housing are becoming crippling costs. The social fabric is fraying. Attempts to blame it all on foreigners are running out of steam, but managing to promote violence along the way. Liz Truss finally broke something the middle class would notice: interest rates. We're due a Labour government which might start to address some of these things. Not surveillance, though. New Labour were very keen on it too.
  - roenxi 3y ago
    I'm not asserting there is a link, I'm a step or two behind that, asserting that if we're going to consider any social change in the UK then it should be done in light of what is probably the biggest influence on living standards. In the UK we see an economy with, y'know, substantial debt. A lot of their alleged assets at the national level are US treasuries which are unreliable stores of wealth [0]. Their ability to secure energy just cratered by ~25% from peak. That is some pretty dire context. Then we have the elites - who are aware of these factors - pushing through extremely heavy surveillance laws. Now it might be that surveillance is cheap these days, but nevertheless the policy disaster that they've engineered needs to be considered as a factor. In their position I'd certainly be tempted by a rats on the sinking ship mentality and the lure of flirting with totalitarianism. [0] With China apparently selling off their debt the UK is trending towards being the 2nd largest holder of US debt. Which is a bit risky given the US is likely to engage the printing presses in a big way.
    - pjc50 3y ago
      https://www.macrotrends.net/2549/pound-dollar-exchange-rate-historical-chart https://www.macrotrends.net/2549/pound-dollar-exchange-rate-... The dollar holds its value better than the pound. US treasuries remain undefeated. > pushing through extremely heavy surveillance laws The thing is, none of this is new. We had extremely heavy surveillance in the 1980s (see Spycatcher, Zircon) and 1970s, back when British troops were murdering civilians on the streets of the UK. The UK surveillance industry always asks for more power. And it's consistently somewhat popular with the public. (aren't you an American?)