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I largely agree, but this seems quite unfair to Linux. > But damn, if Linux had been built with safety in mind security would be a lot simpler. Being able to t

I largely agree, but this seems quite unfair to Linux. > But damn, if Linux had been built with safety in mind security would be a lot simpler. Being able to trust the kernel would be so nice. For its time, it was built with safety in mind, we can't hold it to a standard that wasn't prevalent until ~20 years later

insanitybit 3y ago
I don't think it's that unfair, but I don't want to get into a whole thing about it, people get really upset about criticisms of the Linux kernel in my experience and I'm not looking to start my morning off with that conversation. We can agree that C was definitely the language to be doing these things in and I don't blame Linus for choosing it. My point wasn't to shit on Linux for its decisions, it was to think about a hypothetical world where safety built in from the start.
- pjmlp 3y ago
  Apollo Computer is notable for having had a UNIX compatible OS, written in a Pascal dialect, as was Mac OS (migrating to C++ later on).
  - jll29 3y ago
    Clarification: The Apollo computer series by Apollo Domain is meant here, not the Apollo space mission, just to be sure. The Pascal-based operating system is Aegis (later DomainOS), which - with UNIX - is a joint precursor of HP-UX: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domain/OS#AEGIS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domain/OS#AEGIS .
- peoplefromibiza 3y ago
  > where safety built in from the start Don't worry, in 30 years people will write the same thing about using Rust, assuming that Rust will still be in use 30 years from now.
  - thom 3y ago
    Yeah, how naive we were building operating systems without linear and dependent types. Savages.
- bluGill 3y ago
  why not ada? Sure rust didn't exist when linux was first being built, but ada did and had a number of memory safety features. (not the same as rust's, but still better than C)
  - renox 3y ago
    Simple, when Linux was created gcc was Free, Ada compilers were expensive..
  - fch42 3y ago
    The "historical anecdote" is that somewhen around kernel 0.99, C++ was tried. And given up due to both compiler bugs and (worse) abysmal compilation performance. For all I know about Ada, the latter has a reputation for "non-speed" on compile worse than C++ even. Nevermind that gnats (gcc ada integration) post-dates Linux by a few years. Of course, it could simply be that Linus looked, got an allergic fit, and hence didn't bother ...
ladyanita22 3y ago
*30 years... Yes, we're that old.

insanitybit 3y ago

I don't think it's that unfair, but I don't want to get into a whole thing about it, people get really upset about criticisms of the Linux kernel in my experience and I'm not looking to start my morning off with that conversation. We can agree that C was definitely the language to be doing these things in and I don't blame Linus for choosing it. My point wasn't to shit on Linux for its decisions, it was to think about a hypothetical world where safety built in from the start.

pjmlp 3y ago
Apollo Computer is notable for having had a UNIX compatible OS, written in a Pascal dialect, as was Mac OS (migrating to C++ later on).
- jll29 3y ago
  Clarification: The Apollo computer series by Apollo Domain is meant here, not the Apollo space mission, just to be sure. The Pascal-based operating system is Aegis (later DomainOS), which - with UNIX - is a joint precursor of HP-UX: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domain/OS#AEGIS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domain/OS#AEGIS .
peoplefromibiza 3y ago
> where safety built in from the start Don't worry, in 30 years people will write the same thing about using Rust, assuming that Rust will still be in use 30 years from now.
- thom 3y ago
  Yeah, how naive we were building operating systems without linear and dependent types. Savages.
bluGill 3y ago
why not ada? Sure rust didn't exist when linux was first being built, but ada did and had a number of memory safety features. (not the same as rust's, but still better than C)
- renox 3y ago
  Simple, when Linux was created gcc was Free, Ada compilers were expensive..
- fch42 3y ago
  The "historical anecdote" is that somewhen around kernel 0.99, C++ was tried. And given up due to both compiler bugs and (worse) abysmal compilation performance. For all I know about Ada, the latter has a reputation for "non-speed" on compile worse than C++ even. Nevermind that gnats (gcc ada integration) post-dates Linux by a few years. Of course, it could simply be that Linus looked, got an allergic fit, and hence didn't bother ...

ladyanita22 3y ago

*30 years... Yes, we're that old.