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This is the timeline we're on. Ousting Eich directly led to our current Mozilla situation. He's not the only who could've ran it successfully. But we are where

This is the timeline we're on. Ousting Eich directly led to our current Mozilla situation. He's not the only who could've ran it successfully. But we are where we are because people wanted him ousted and instead were ok with Mitchell Baker types. From a realist perspective that cares about actual outcomes, we are in the worse timeline with an incompetent Mozilla vs. whatever small negative affects Eich would affect in the grand scheme of Prop 8 related issues.

wkat4242 3y ago
With the benefit of hindsight, yes. If I were working at Mozilla it wouldn't affect how I'd act in the future though. Yes this turned out very poorly. But you can't predict these things. And principles are worthwhile to speak out for. And we don't even know if he'd have done a better job (though this is admittedly not hard) Eich wouldn't have made a change to prop 8, no. But the culture at and image of Mozilla would have changed.
- reducesuffering 3y ago
  Ok so we have the benefit of hindsight, but I say, let's predict these things better. Principles are worthwhile to speak out for, but if we have better predictions on getting better outcomes, we should lean towards those better outcomes and not certainly dig our own grave by latching onto what may be a misguided principled stance. I'm quite sure that most of the people, that care about an independent successful Firefox and celebrated Eich's ouster, now regret that. We need to change our mindset when what happens is viciously descending on someone, years after the fact, for donating to what was a majority opinion in a liberal state. And yet ignoring or giving a pass to the years of continued actual malfeasance running Firefox thereafter. If it means actually accomplishing good things in the world, an independent web, I'm willing to give people leeway, nowhere close to what they're giving current Mozilla. The problem is people never gave a single thought to what possible futures ousting the technical CEO of Mozilla means, and unfortunately we now have to live it.

wkat4242 3y ago

With the benefit of hindsight, yes. If I were working at Mozilla it wouldn't affect how I'd act in the future though. Yes this turned out very poorly. But you can't predict these things. And principles are worthwhile to speak out for. And we don't even know if he'd have done a better job (though this is admittedly not hard) Eich wouldn't have made a change to prop 8, no. But the culture at and image of Mozilla would have changed.

reducesuffering 3y ago
Ok so we have the benefit of hindsight, but I say, let's predict these things better. Principles are worthwhile to speak out for, but if we have better predictions on getting better outcomes, we should lean towards those better outcomes and not certainly dig our own grave by latching onto what may be a misguided principled stance. I'm quite sure that most of the people, that care about an independent successful Firefox and celebrated Eich's ouster, now regret that. We need to change our mindset when what happens is viciously descending on someone, years after the fact, for donating to what was a majority opinion in a liberal state. And yet ignoring or giving a pass to the years of continued actual malfeasance running Firefox thereafter. If it means actually accomplishing good things in the world, an independent web, I'm willing to give people leeway, nowhere close to what they're giving current Mozilla. The problem is people never gave a single thought to what possible futures ousting the technical CEO of Mozilla means, and unfortunately we now have to live it.