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As the article points out, female suicide attempts far outnumber male suicide attempts. That male suicide succeeds more often is due to the methods used. If you

by HWR_14 3y ago

As the article points out, female suicide attempts far outnumber male suicide attempts. That male suicide succeeds more often is due to the methods used. If you are using suicide as a proxy for mental health, then suicide attempts seem as valid a proxy as suicides. But even if that wasn't the case, there is a measurable difference in the rate of change. The number of female suicides is increasing at a far faster rate than male suicides.

klipt 3y ago
> suicide attempts seem as valid a proxy as suicides. In a sense they're inversely correlated, since if at first you succeed, you'll never attempt again. Unless you're specifically controlling for that by not counting subsequent attempts by the same person.
epoxia 3y ago
I would like to point out that you can only attempt once if you "succeed". Attempts recount the same individuals suffering.
scarmig 3y ago
1. Male and female suicide attempts are fundamentally different qualitatively, as evidenced by the fact that men succeed at approximately 10x the rate of women (and, to preempt the usual response, this extends to places where guns are illegal and account for a small minority of suicide methods). This is due to a difference in intent: women attempt suicide as a cry for help; men attempt suicide to end their suffering. Both are bad situations, but it's wrong to equate them, and the latter is clearly worse, because men don't have help available as even an option. 2. Suppose men succeed at suicide 30% of the time, and women succeed at suicide 3% of the time. The greatest risk factor for suicide attempts is having previously attempted suicide. A useful exercise: calculate the gender ratio of suicide attempts, assuming equal likelihood of a first attempt and repeating attempts until success.
ryathal 3y ago
Using suicide attempts has the same problem as the 50% of marriages end in divorce statistic.

by HWR_14 3y ago

klipt 3y ago

> suicide attempts seem as valid a proxy as suicides. In a sense they're inversely correlated, since if at first you succeed, you'll never attempt again. Unless you're specifically controlling for that by not counting subsequent attempts by the same person.

epoxia 3y ago

I would like to point out that you can only attempt once if you "succeed". Attempts recount the same individuals suffering.

scarmig 3y ago

1. Male and female suicide attempts are fundamentally different qualitatively, as evidenced by the fact that men succeed at approximately 10x the rate of women (and, to preempt the usual response, this extends to places where guns are illegal and account for a small minority of suicide methods). This is due to a difference in intent: women attempt suicide as a cry for help; men attempt suicide to end their suffering. Both are bad situations, but it's wrong to equate them, and the latter is clearly worse, because men don't have help available as even an option. 2. Suppose men succeed at suicide 30% of the time, and women succeed at suicide 3% of the time. The greatest risk factor for suicide attempts is having previously attempted suicide. A useful exercise: calculate the gender ratio of suicide attempts, assuming equal likelihood of a first attempt and repeating attempts until success.

ryathal 3y ago

Using suicide attempts has the same problem as the 50% of marriages end in divorce statistic.