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I'm confused about how the article minimizes the suicide rate in boys. It even has multiple paragraphs analyzing why this gap exists. It seems like you're fram

by wh313 3y ago

I'm confused about how the article minimizes the suicide rate in boys. It even has multiple paragraphs analyzing why this gap exists. It seems like you're framing gender dynamics as a zero-sum game, where improving the situation of one results in stepbacks the other. I agree that men do face significant struggles in today's society [1], but there are ways to move forward in ways that benefit everyone [2]. [1] Perry, Grayson. The Descent of Man. United Kingdom: Penguin Publishing Group, 2017. [2] hooks, bell. Feminism is for Everybody: Passionate Politics. United Kingdom: Pluto Press, 2000.

deaddodo 3y ago
Because men already have a hell of a time getting support, sympathy or understanding without the issue being reframed as "well it is toxic masculinity's fault", "you should have seen a psychiatrist" or "yeah but women try more and that's totally not a sign of attention seeking behavior as opposed to genuine fatigue/despair with life". So yeah people represented by the more afflicted group will find it particularly offensive that it's being reframed in yet another female-centric manner.
- definitelyreal 3y ago
  Are you saying that attempting suicide, potentially multiple times, is not a sign of genuine despair? What would you consider a “genuine” enough sign of despair? You start by saying that men have a harder time getting sympathy, and then minimize the same issue for women by implying that women who attempt suicide aren’t “trying” as hard and they don’t feel ‘actual’ distress but rather they are being manipulative. There are a lot of ways to get attention, which is a totally normal thing for humans to want, and if someone is that desperate for it I think it’s safer to go ahead and assume it’s because they are actually unhappy and it’s worth addressing rather than calling them a liar?
- jrflowers 3y ago
  You make a good point, there can be no improvement in male suicide rates until any and all record keeping of female suicides ceases entirely. As posters online our first duty upon seeing an article like this is to demand that nobody ever write anything like this until such a time that it is deemed worthy of study by us, the posters
  - deaddodo 3y ago
    Cool strawman. Take it to a farm, where it's useful.
    - jrflowers 3y ago
      It is hard to match the intellectual rigor you’ve set forth by responding to > It seems like you're framing gender dynamics as a zero-sum game With “lol ya”
      - deaddodo 3y ago
        Got me.

by wh313 3y ago

deaddodo 3y ago

Because men already have a hell of a time getting support, sympathy or understanding without the issue being reframed as "well it is toxic masculinity's fault", "you should have seen a psychiatrist" or "yeah but women try more and that's totally not a sign of attention seeking behavior as opposed to genuine fatigue/despair with life". So yeah people represented by the more afflicted group will find it particularly offensive that it's being reframed in yet another female-centric manner.

definitelyreal 3y ago
Are you saying that attempting suicide, potentially multiple times, is not a sign of genuine despair? What would you consider a “genuine” enough sign of despair? You start by saying that men have a harder time getting sympathy, and then minimize the same issue for women by implying that women who attempt suicide aren’t “trying” as hard and they don’t feel ‘actual’ distress but rather they are being manipulative. There are a lot of ways to get attention, which is a totally normal thing for humans to want, and if someone is that desperate for it I think it’s safer to go ahead and assume it’s because they are actually unhappy and it’s worth addressing rather than calling them a liar?
jrflowers 3y ago
You make a good point, there can be no improvement in male suicide rates until any and all record keeping of female suicides ceases entirely. As posters online our first duty upon seeing an article like this is to demand that nobody ever write anything like this until such a time that it is deemed worthy of study by us, the posters
- deaddodo 3y ago
  Cool strawman. Take it to a farm, where it's useful.
  - jrflowers 3y ago
    It is hard to match the intellectual rigor you’ve set forth by responding to > It seems like you're framing gender dynamics as a zero-sum game With “lol ya”
    - deaddodo 3y ago
      Got me.