6 ms·

"You can attach photos from Drive to posts in Google+" And this reminded me how much stuff I already have sitting in Google. A minor glitch last week meant I

by amirmc 15y ago

"You can attach photos from Drive to posts in Google+" And this reminded me how much stuff I already have sitting in Google. A minor glitch last week meant I couldn't access my webmail (though I primarily use IMAP), which made me start thinking about this. I'm really pleased to see Drive come out but at the moment I feel reluctant to put too much stuff into it because I become even more dependent on the big G (and I'm actually surprised I feel this way and it's only a recent thing). Perhaps this feeling will fade but I'm not sure. Having an OS on my machine is great since the maker (MS/Apple) can't simply turn it off. Having Google become my "cloud OS" makes me nervous.

magicalist 15y ago
Well it's a good thing a major point of the product is the local copy :)
- amirmc 15y ago
  Yes, but that's not really what concerns me. It's that my workflow runs through those services. To clarify, email (basically your identity online), calendars, device syncing, now file-sharing can be run through Google (and I'm sure a whole lot of other things too). If these were to disappear* I'd basically be left with a nice shiny box, where I could 'work' but in a much more limited way. It would feel like being on a digital desert island (e.g. I do this now by working in places that don't have wireless and letting things 'sync' when I'm back online). I guess I'm just wondering how few companies are in a position to offer services like these, resulting in Google getting all my stuff. It's not bad per se but it is making me wonder what my options really are. (edits for clarity) *I'm referring to the odd story of people getting locked out of google accounts. I know it's rare.
  - Jebus 15y ago
    You can have some degree of peace of mind by using your own domain (it's very easy to set up in gmail). This way, if google ever decides to f*ck you, at least you can set up your own mail server (better than having your life ruined, depending on how important your email address is for you) and move on.
  - jedc 15y ago
    People get hacked and/or locked out of accounts surprisingly often. A good (and tech-savvy friend) was recently hacked, and managed to get thousands of dollars transferred before found it. PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, if you have a Gmail account please follow Jeff Atwood's directions below. Turn on two-factor authentication, make sure you've verified a phone number and recovery email address account. http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2012/04/make-your-email-hacker-proof.html http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2012/04/make-your-email-hac... It eliminates virtually all of the easiest "threat vectors" to your Gmail account.
    - rwallace 15y ago
      Suppose you turn on two factor authentication, and then something happens to the phone number you used for it. Does that mean you've effectively lost your Gmail account? (Not a rhetorical question. I don't know how or whether you can lose a cell phone number - as opposed to just the physical phone, which presumably shouldn't be a problem - but that doesn't necessarily mean it can't happen.)
      - andrewaylett 15y ago
        In regular use, you enter a code from an app, rather than using any network features of the phone. You can also set up (either as default or as backup) a phone number to text with a code -- as backup, they recommend sending to someone else's phone. Lastly, they will give you a list of ten one-time-use codes which you can write down or print out and put in your wallet/safe. If all the above fail, I believe there's an account recovery procedure, which takes a couple of days and involves sending proof of ID. So you're not relying on a single device, and certainly not on a single phone number, to be able to retain your account.
      - ajanuary 15y ago
        You can set up an alternative number, and can also print out a bunch of one-time use codes. One of these methods should be enough to log in and change the settings.
      - mryan 15y ago
        The two-factor auth system does not use the phone as a phone, just as a hardware token. Google displays a token on the login screen, you enter this in your phone and type the code it gives you in to the login page (similar to RSA's SecurID, but your phone is the device).
  - niels_olson 15y ago
    > digital desert island Welcome to the Navy-Marine Corps Internet!
alwaysdoit 15y ago
The amount of time I have been unable to access something because of a Google outage is much much lower than the amount of time I have been unable to access something because I lost my flash drive, left my laptop at home, etc.
superuser2 15y ago
Even if it feels better to be in control, Google is still better than most individuals at not losing data.
- phreeza 15y ago
  Is there even evidence of Google really verifiably loosing any user data? If not, considering the amount of data they handle, they can probably be considered the best at not loosing data, from a bayesian point of view.
douglee650 15y ago
well, have you thought about how much "self serve IT" works for average consumers before cloud based services? for ex. can you aunt download and configure a mail client, or does she just have an @yahoo
mcherm 15y ago
There's a business opportunity out there for someone to build a "Google Backup" tool. It would synch your G-drive to Dropbox, your Gmail to yahoo mail, and so on. Marketed as "in case they turn evil" and intended people like you (and me!) who have this concern. The company would become useless if Google ever fixed their customer service problems ("they closed my account and wouldn't say why!"), but Google has demonstrated they WON'T fix that.
- culturestate 15y ago
  It's not strictly an apples/apples comparison, but there are several apps like Spanning Backup(1) on the GApps Marketplace that offer whole-account backup. 1. https://www.google.com/enterprise/marketplace/viewListing?productListingId=68+17631887083757151838&pli=1 https://www.google.com/enterprise/marketplace/viewListing?pr...

by amirmc 15y ago

magicalist 15y ago

Well it's a good thing a major point of the product is the local copy :)

amirmc 15y ago
Yes, but that's not really what concerns me. It's that my workflow runs through those services. To clarify, email (basically your identity online), calendars, device syncing, now file-sharing can be run through Google (and I'm sure a whole lot of other things too). If these were to disappear* I'd basically be left with a nice shiny box, where I could 'work' but in a much more limited way. It would feel like being on a digital desert island (e.g. I do this now by working in places that don't have wireless and letting things 'sync' when I'm back online). I guess I'm just wondering how few companies are in a position to offer services like these, resulting in Google getting all my stuff. It's not bad per se but it is making me wonder what my options really are. (edits for clarity) *I'm referring to the odd story of people getting locked out of google accounts. I know it's rare.
- Jebus 15y ago
  You can have some degree of peace of mind by using your own domain (it's very easy to set up in gmail). This way, if google ever decides to f*ck you, at least you can set up your own mail server (better than having your life ruined, depending on how important your email address is for you) and move on.
- jedc 15y ago
  People get hacked and/or locked out of accounts surprisingly often. A good (and tech-savvy friend) was recently hacked, and managed to get thousands of dollars transferred before found it. PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, if you have a Gmail account please follow Jeff Atwood's directions below. Turn on two-factor authentication, make sure you've verified a phone number and recovery email address account. http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2012/04/make-your-email-hacker-proof.html http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2012/04/make-your-email-hac... It eliminates virtually all of the easiest "threat vectors" to your Gmail account.
  - rwallace 15y ago
    Suppose you turn on two factor authentication, and then something happens to the phone number you used for it. Does that mean you've effectively lost your Gmail account? (Not a rhetorical question. I don't know how or whether you can lose a cell phone number - as opposed to just the physical phone, which presumably shouldn't be a problem - but that doesn't necessarily mean it can't happen.)
    - andrewaylett 15y ago
      In regular use, you enter a code from an app, rather than using any network features of the phone. You can also set up (either as default or as backup) a phone number to text with a code -- as backup, they recommend sending to someone else's phone. Lastly, they will give you a list of ten one-time-use codes which you can write down or print out and put in your wallet/safe. If all the above fail, I believe there's an account recovery procedure, which takes a couple of days and involves sending proof of ID. So you're not relying on a single device, and certainly not on a single phone number, to be able to retain your account.
    - ajanuary 15y ago
      You can set up an alternative number, and can also print out a bunch of one-time use codes. One of these methods should be enough to log in and change the settings.
    - mryan 15y ago
      The two-factor auth system does not use the phone as a phone, just as a hardware token. Google displays a token on the login screen, you enter this in your phone and type the code it gives you in to the login page (similar to RSA's SecurID, but your phone is the device).
- niels_olson 15y ago
  > digital desert island Welcome to the Navy-Marine Corps Internet!

alwaysdoit 15y ago

The amount of time I have been unable to access something because of a Google outage is much much lower than the amount of time I have been unable to access something because I lost my flash drive, left my laptop at home, etc.

superuser2 15y ago

Even if it feels better to be in control, Google is still better than most individuals at not losing data.

phreeza 15y ago
Is there even evidence of Google really verifiably loosing any user data? If not, considering the amount of data they handle, they can probably be considered the best at not loosing data, from a bayesian point of view.

douglee650 15y ago

well, have you thought about how much "self serve IT" works for average consumers before cloud based services? for ex. can you aunt download and configure a mail client, or does she just have an @yahoo

mcherm 15y ago

There's a business opportunity out there for someone to build a "Google Backup" tool. It would synch your G-drive to Dropbox, your Gmail to yahoo mail, and so on. Marketed as "in case they turn evil" and intended people like you (and me!) who have this concern. The company would become useless if Google ever fixed their customer service problems ("they closed my account and wouldn't say why!"), but Google has demonstrated they WON'T fix that.

culturestate 15y ago
It's not strictly an apples/apples comparison, but there are several apps like Spanning Backup(1) on the GApps Marketplace that offer whole-account backup. 1. https://www.google.com/enterprise/marketplace/viewListing?productListingId=68+17631887083757151838&pli=1 https://www.google.com/enterprise/marketplace/viewListing?pr...