3 ms·

Wait, what? Whatever happened to all the coal fired power plants Germany is going to spin up to keep us all warm and toasty?

drewcon 3y ago
Yeah I have the same question. My understanding is they had to bring more coal online to offset shutting down nuclear. What gives?
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- blkhawk 3y ago
  well.. its actually a bit more complex than that. The TLDR is that the slack of nuclear was picked up by renewables (mostly wind). the slightly more complicated reason is that wind often was kept off in favor of non-throttle-able base-loads like coal and nuclear. Now with the latter out of the picture the slack has to be taken up my either expensive NGAS or wind. NGAS can be throttled somewhat quickly so if there is wind its now used. This suddenly reveals the true capacities that were there all along.
  - mahkeiro 3y ago
    Not sure I get your point in 2019 Germany was producing 123.6TWh of wind energy in 2023 it's 139.8 TWh. Yes it's increasing but it doesn't even start to compensate the total that went from 522TWh to 436TWh. And the wind production capacity increased at the same time from 62GW to 69GW during the same time interval.
pvorb 3y ago
A huge problem with the German coal phase-out by 2038 ("ideally by 2030") is that the law doesn't prohibit exporting coal. So with every coal plant that's shut down, coal becomes cheaper and will be burned by someone else. We're doomed.
- cronix 3y ago
  > China permitted more coal power plants last year than any time in the last seven years, according to a new report released this week. It's the equivalent of about two new coal power plants per week. The report by energy data organizations Global Energy Monitor and the Centre for Research on Energy and Clean Air finds the country quadrupled the amount of new coal power approvals in 2022 compared to 2021. > That's despite the fact that much of the world is getting off coal, says Flora Champenois, coal research analyst at Global Energy Monitor and one of the co-authors of the report. > "Everybody else is moving away from coal and China seems to be stepping on the gas," she says. "We saw that China has six times as much plants starting construction as the rest of the world combined." https://www.npr.org/2023/03/02/1160441919/china-is-building-six-times-more-new-coal-plants-than-other-countries-report-fin https://www.npr.org/2023/03/02/1160441919/china-is-building-...
  - ViewTrick1002 3y ago
    China is also building enough renewable power than their grid expansion rate leading to a structural decline in CO2 emissions. At the same time the utilization factors of the coal plants reduce each year. https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/nov/13/chinas-carbon-emissions-set-for-structural-decline-from-next-year https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/nov/13/chinas-carb...
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TheLoafOfBread 3y ago
They are not accounted for when they are not supplying electricity thus the headline. But they are still running in idle mode, consuming coal.

drewcon 3y ago

Yeah I have the same question. My understanding is they had to bring more coal online to offset shutting down nuclear. What gives?

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
blkhawk 3y ago
well.. its actually a bit more complex than that. The TLDR is that the slack of nuclear was picked up by renewables (mostly wind). the slightly more complicated reason is that wind often was kept off in favor of non-throttle-able base-loads like coal and nuclear. Now with the latter out of the picture the slack has to be taken up my either expensive NGAS or wind. NGAS can be throttled somewhat quickly so if there is wind its now used. This suddenly reveals the true capacities that were there all along.
- mahkeiro 3y ago
  Not sure I get your point in 2019 Germany was producing 123.6TWh of wind energy in 2023 it's 139.8 TWh. Yes it's increasing but it doesn't even start to compensate the total that went from 522TWh to 436TWh. And the wind production capacity increased at the same time from 62GW to 69GW during the same time interval.

pvorb 3y ago

A huge problem with the German coal phase-out by 2038 ("ideally by 2030") is that the law doesn't prohibit exporting coal. So with every coal plant that's shut down, coal becomes cheaper and will be burned by someone else. We're doomed.

cronix 3y ago
> China permitted more coal power plants last year than any time in the last seven years, according to a new report released this week. It's the equivalent of about two new coal power plants per week. The report by energy data organizations Global Energy Monitor and the Centre for Research on Energy and Clean Air finds the country quadrupled the amount of new coal power approvals in 2022 compared to 2021. > That's despite the fact that much of the world is getting off coal, says Flora Champenois, coal research analyst at Global Energy Monitor and one of the co-authors of the report. > "Everybody else is moving away from coal and China seems to be stepping on the gas," she says. "We saw that China has six times as much plants starting construction as the rest of the world combined." https://www.npr.org/2023/03/02/1160441919/china-is-building-six-times-more-new-coal-plants-than-other-countries-report-fin https://www.npr.org/2023/03/02/1160441919/china-is-building-...
- ViewTrick1002 3y ago
  China is also building enough renewable power than their grid expansion rate leading to a structural decline in CO2 emissions. At the same time the utilization factors of the coal plants reduce each year. https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/nov/13/chinas-carbon-emissions-set-for-structural-decline-from-next-year https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/nov/13/chinas-carb...
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]

TheLoafOfBread 3y ago

They are not accounted for when they are not supplying electricity thus the headline. But they are still running in idle mode, consuming coal.