3 ms·

Simply: because the carriers want to be able to play phone manufacturers against each other like the good old days. Android alone hasn't given them as much ammo

by roc 15y ago

Simply: because the carriers want to be able to play phone manufacturers against each other like the good old days. Android alone hasn't given them as much ammo against Apple as they'd like and Android itself may be facing consolidation. There's a real chance that consumer acceptance of the incredible range of Android phones is predicated on their belief that the Android brand makes those phones largely comparable, if not compatible. So if manufacturers go a more Amazon-ish route with Android in retaliation for Google's buying Motorola, it's entirely possible that consumers may not be willing to follow the smaller outfits. And that would mean a further concentration of sales under the handful of manufacturers that do have some individual pull with consumers (say, HTC and Samsung). Which would only exacerbate the carriers' problem of not-enough-phone-manufacturers-at-each-others-throats.

diminish 15y ago
Rather: iphone financing is killing their cash flow, blackberry is lost as an alternative, android has a too big winner-samsung. Carriers need a third player, to push down financed device costs and microsoft is hopeless about mobile and has cash to throw in.
- masklinn 15y ago
  > Rather: iphone financing is killing their cash flow Not sure why that would be, surely while Apple dictates their asking price they don't dictate financed price do they? So that's a self-inflicted wound, and one which carriers could fix by financing the phone less. On the other hand, the iPhone precludes almost all carrier control, they don't control the initial load, they don't control the updates, ... Carriers control some features Apple gives them hooks for (e.g. tethering), but that's about it. And customers become loyal to the device (and its manufacturer) rather than the carrier, not hesitating jumping ships to a carrier providing the device. > Carriers need a third player, to push down financed device costs It's not like Apple had much say in this back in 2007~2008, and BlackBerry was still there... I don't see sensible support for this narrative.
  - recoiledsnake 15y ago
    >Not sure why that would be, surely while Apple dictates their asking price they don't dictate financed price do they? So that's a self-inflicted wound, and one which carriers could fix by financing the phone less. The fact is that margins are down at Sprint, Verizon and AT&T because of the iPhone. Last quarter: http://business.time.com/2012/02/08/how-apples-iphone-actually-hurts-att-verizon-and-sprint/ http://business.time.com/2012/02/08/how-apples-iphone-actual... This quarter, AT&T's and Verizon's profits are up because of lower iPhone sales: http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/24/us-att-idUSBRE83N0KR20120424 http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/24/us-att-idUSBRE83N0... I think Apple won't be too happy with it's primary device more expensive than $199 on contract as that's the sweet spot and any increase will cut into sales. Apple's stock is down about 13% in two weeks because the carriers are getting tired of razor thin margins on iPhones while Apple laughs all the way to the bank and are pushing back. Not to mention the lower sales of iPhones this quarter. http://blogs.marketwatch.com/thetell/2012/04/23/apple-slips-on-more-talk-of-subsidy-declines/ http://blogs.marketwatch.com/thetell/2012/04/23/apple-slips-... http://money.cnn.com/2012/04/24/technology/att-verizon-iphone/index.htm http://money.cnn.com/2012/04/24/technology/att-verizon-iphon...
    - maercsrats 15y ago
      Lies, damn lies and stats. "Apple sold 44% less iPhones last quarter" is technically correct. But last quarter saw around a 150% increase in sales because of pent up demand and the holiday quarter. If you compare this quarter from one a year ago you'll see that sales are actually up. http://www.macrumors.com/2012/04/24/iphone-activations-drop-43-at-att-but-represent-60-of-total-postpaid-phone-sales/ http://www.macrumors.com/2012/04/24/iphone-activations-drop-... Also, I call bullshit on the "razor thin margins" that carriers are making. They make plenty over the lifetime of the device contracts. Also, ask Sprint if it would like to get rid of it's iPhone deal. They are getting plenty of new subscribers thanks to the iPhone and are banking on making up their initial loss over time on their new contracts. http://www.networkworld.com/community/blog/analyst-who-downgraded-apple-has-his-facts-all-wrong http://www.networkworld.com/community/blog/analyst-who-downg... The problem comes in on their aggressive upgrade policies. In fact, I believe Verizon just added a $30 fee for upgrades on 2 year contracts. Apple's stock is down because the market is full of idiots. Analysts have bet against Apple for years and every quarter Apple has come up on top. I'll bet dollars to doughnuts that this quarter won't be any different and overall sales will be through the roof.
- roc 15y ago
  Building up Windows Phone is completely the wrong move if they want lower prices. Microsoft is not going to greenlight the component cost-cutting, nor match the license fees (even including patent royalties) that veritable no-name manufacturers get away with, with Android.

by roc 15y ago

diminish 15y ago

Rather: iphone financing is killing their cash flow, blackberry is lost as an alternative, android has a too big winner-samsung. Carriers need a third player, to push down financed device costs and microsoft is hopeless about mobile and has cash to throw in.

masklinn 15y ago
> Rather: iphone financing is killing their cash flow Not sure why that would be, surely while Apple dictates their asking price they don't dictate financed price do they? So that's a self-inflicted wound, and one which carriers could fix by financing the phone less. On the other hand, the iPhone precludes almost all carrier control, they don't control the initial load, they don't control the updates, ... Carriers control some features Apple gives them hooks for (e.g. tethering), but that's about it. And customers become loyal to the device (and its manufacturer) rather than the carrier, not hesitating jumping ships to a carrier providing the device. > Carriers need a third player, to push down financed device costs It's not like Apple had much say in this back in 2007~2008, and BlackBerry was still there... I don't see sensible support for this narrative.
- recoiledsnake 15y ago
  >Not sure why that would be, surely while Apple dictates their asking price they don't dictate financed price do they? So that's a self-inflicted wound, and one which carriers could fix by financing the phone less. The fact is that margins are down at Sprint, Verizon and AT&T because of the iPhone. Last quarter: http://business.time.com/2012/02/08/how-apples-iphone-actually-hurts-att-verizon-and-sprint/ http://business.time.com/2012/02/08/how-apples-iphone-actual... This quarter, AT&T's and Verizon's profits are up because of lower iPhone sales: http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/24/us-att-idUSBRE83N0KR20120424 http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/24/us-att-idUSBRE83N0... I think Apple won't be too happy with it's primary device more expensive than $199 on contract as that's the sweet spot and any increase will cut into sales. Apple's stock is down about 13% in two weeks because the carriers are getting tired of razor thin margins on iPhones while Apple laughs all the way to the bank and are pushing back. Not to mention the lower sales of iPhones this quarter. http://blogs.marketwatch.com/thetell/2012/04/23/apple-slips-on-more-talk-of-subsidy-declines/ http://blogs.marketwatch.com/thetell/2012/04/23/apple-slips-... http://money.cnn.com/2012/04/24/technology/att-verizon-iphone/index.htm http://money.cnn.com/2012/04/24/technology/att-verizon-iphon...
  - maercsrats 15y ago
    Lies, damn lies and stats. "Apple sold 44% less iPhones last quarter" is technically correct. But last quarter saw around a 150% increase in sales because of pent up demand and the holiday quarter. If you compare this quarter from one a year ago you'll see that sales are actually up. http://www.macrumors.com/2012/04/24/iphone-activations-drop-43-at-att-but-represent-60-of-total-postpaid-phone-sales/ http://www.macrumors.com/2012/04/24/iphone-activations-drop-... Also, I call bullshit on the "razor thin margins" that carriers are making. They make plenty over the lifetime of the device contracts. Also, ask Sprint if it would like to get rid of it's iPhone deal. They are getting plenty of new subscribers thanks to the iPhone and are banking on making up their initial loss over time on their new contracts. http://www.networkworld.com/community/blog/analyst-who-downgraded-apple-has-his-facts-all-wrong http://www.networkworld.com/community/blog/analyst-who-downg... The problem comes in on their aggressive upgrade policies. In fact, I believe Verizon just added a $30 fee for upgrades on 2 year contracts. Apple's stock is down because the market is full of idiots. Analysts have bet against Apple for years and every quarter Apple has come up on top. I'll bet dollars to doughnuts that this quarter won't be any different and overall sales will be through the roof.
roc 15y ago
Building up Windows Phone is completely the wrong move if they want lower prices. Microsoft is not going to greenlight the component cost-cutting, nor match the license fees (even including patent royalties) that veritable no-name manufacturers get away with, with Android.