4 ms·

Is "line up and wait" really the new approved terminology? Way back when I was a PP student, it was "taxi into position runway XX and hold. Acknowledge hold."

Is "line up and wait" really the new approved terminology? Way back when I was a PP student, it was "taxi into position runway XX and hold. Acknowledge hold." Line up and wait sounds like something you tell preschoolers to do :-)

rmk 3y ago
Line up and wait (meaning, on the runway, prior to actual takeoff clearance) is very common during busy periods. This is in America.
- phkahler 3y ago
  I've never seen planes line up and wait on the runway since there is only supposed to be one on there at any time.
  - error503 3y ago
    Line up and wait will be used after the preceding departure has started their takeoff roll, so the following aircraft can be ready to take off once the required spacing is achieved. It could also be used while other aircraft/vehicles are crossing the runway at other intersections.
  - sokoloff 3y ago
    The “line up” in this case refers to an instruction given to a single airplane to position itself on the runway in preparation for departure (as in “line up with the departure runway heading”). It is not “hey, multiple airplanes get yourself into a queue on the runway”.
  - paranoidrobot 3y ago
    There can be multiple aircraft on the runway at multiple times, so long as there's no conflicting operations. It's used quite regularly at any moderately busy airport to reduce delays. Examples where I've seen/heard it used in ATC comms: Aircraft departing in sequence. eg A, then B. So: "Flight A (already lined up on runway 35L), cleared for takeoff runway 35L." (some short time later while Flight A is still in the process of taking off) "Flight B, runway 35L line up and wait" Aircraft departing after an arrival. eg "Flight A cleared to land, 35L", and right as flight A has crossed the threshold: "Flight B, runway 35L line up and wait" Also, as mentioned by others, when there are other movements to cross a runway between departures. eg "Flight A, at Foxtrot 5, cross Runway 35L. Flight B, runway 35L line up and wait"
  - rmk 3y ago
    Maybe not with big airliners. It's common for small planes to be told to line up and wait while the current aircraft (also usually another small aircraft) is in the midst of taking off.
- wlonkly 3y ago
  "Line up and wait" unambiguously means to do so on the runway. https://www.faa.gov/airports/runway_safety/resources/luaw https://www.faa.gov/airports/runway_safety/resources/luaw
stevehawk 3y ago
"Line up and wait" is, historically, the ICAO phraseology, which the FAA adopted (and ditched the "taxi into position and talk for thirty more seconds and block comms" phrase). The phrase adoption went into effect Oct 2010 in the States.
hn8305823 3y ago
"position and hold" was the old phraseology in the US. It changed to "line up and wait" on 2010/09/30 to match ICAO standards and because "hold (on the runway)" might be confused with "hold short (of a runway/taxiway), or "hold position (wherever you are now)". https://www.faa.gov/airports/runway_safety/resources/luaw https://www.faa.gov/airports/runway_safety/resources/luaw
- fireflash38 3y ago
  I do love how we try so hard to disambiguate language. Especially hard when working across languages too. And it shows how badly things can go if left to fuzzy language protocols.
  - wlonkly 3y ago
    And on relatively ancient analog radio systems, no less.
jamesharding 3y ago
"Line up and wait" is indeed correct! https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/atpubs/aim_html/chap5_section_2.html https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/atpubs/aim_html...
WalterBright 3y ago
"Take off power" has caused at least 2 crashes before that phrase was banned.
- whycome 3y ago
  Go on? Because it can be confused with "take off" as in "turn off"?
  - WalterBright 3y ago
    When an airplane is taking off, takeoff power is maximum power. But it can (and was) sometimes interpreted as "turning the power off".
- noncoml 3y ago
  What’s your vector, Victor?

rmk 3y ago

Line up and wait (meaning, on the runway, prior to actual takeoff clearance) is very common during busy periods. This is in America.

phkahler 3y ago
I've never seen planes line up and wait on the runway since there is only supposed to be one on there at any time.
- error503 3y ago
  Line up and wait will be used after the preceding departure has started their takeoff roll, so the following aircraft can be ready to take off once the required spacing is achieved. It could also be used while other aircraft/vehicles are crossing the runway at other intersections.
- sokoloff 3y ago
  The “line up” in this case refers to an instruction given to a single airplane to position itself on the runway in preparation for departure (as in “line up with the departure runway heading”). It is not “hey, multiple airplanes get yourself into a queue on the runway”.
- paranoidrobot 3y ago
  There can be multiple aircraft on the runway at multiple times, so long as there's no conflicting operations. It's used quite regularly at any moderately busy airport to reduce delays. Examples where I've seen/heard it used in ATC comms: Aircraft departing in sequence. eg A, then B. So: "Flight A (already lined up on runway 35L), cleared for takeoff runway 35L." (some short time later while Flight A is still in the process of taking off) "Flight B, runway 35L line up and wait" Aircraft departing after an arrival. eg "Flight A cleared to land, 35L", and right as flight A has crossed the threshold: "Flight B, runway 35L line up and wait" Also, as mentioned by others, when there are other movements to cross a runway between departures. eg "Flight A, at Foxtrot 5, cross Runway 35L. Flight B, runway 35L line up and wait"
- rmk 3y ago
  Maybe not with big airliners. It's common for small planes to be told to line up and wait while the current aircraft (also usually another small aircraft) is in the midst of taking off.
wlonkly 3y ago
"Line up and wait" unambiguously means to do so on the runway. https://www.faa.gov/airports/runway_safety/resources/luaw https://www.faa.gov/airports/runway_safety/resources/luaw

stevehawk 3y ago

"Line up and wait" is, historically, the ICAO phraseology, which the FAA adopted (and ditched the "taxi into position and talk for thirty more seconds and block comms" phrase). The phrase adoption went into effect Oct 2010 in the States.

hn8305823 3y ago

"position and hold" was the old phraseology in the US. It changed to "line up and wait" on 2010/09/30 to match ICAO standards and because "hold (on the runway)" might be confused with "hold short (of a runway/taxiway), or "hold position (wherever you are now)". https://www.faa.gov/airports/runway_safety/resources/luaw https://www.faa.gov/airports/runway_safety/resources/luaw

fireflash38 3y ago
I do love how we try so hard to disambiguate language. Especially hard when working across languages too. And it shows how badly things can go if left to fuzzy language protocols.
- wlonkly 3y ago
  And on relatively ancient analog radio systems, no less.

jamesharding 3y ago

"Line up and wait" is indeed correct! https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/atpubs/aim_html/chap5_section_2.html https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/atpubs/aim_html...

WalterBright 3y ago

"Take off power" has caused at least 2 crashes before that phrase was banned.

whycome 3y ago
Go on? Because it can be confused with "take off" as in "turn off"?
- WalterBright 3y ago
  When an airplane is taking off, takeoff power is maximum power. But it can (and was) sometimes interpreted as "turning the power off".
noncoml 3y ago
What’s your vector, Victor?