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> ...long on punishment and short on compassion... matter of perspective, friend. short consequences for the guilty party may mean long consequences for the in

by uticus 3y ago

> ...long on punishment and short on compassion... matter of perspective, friend. short consequences for the guilty party may mean long consequences for the innocent. moreover - and i don't think you meant it this way, but - "punishment" is a different word than "rehabilitation". the confusion between the two is a symptom of the bigger confusion over what law, order, justice, etc mean at a social level... and now we are back at the "ideologue" level, where statistically meaningful datapoints may indicate any number of different things. in other words, ideas have consequences. i don't trust anyone who isn't at the "ideologue" level in these sorts of conversations.

spamizbad 3y ago
You may not be the right person to ask this, but I'm curious: among ideologues for punishment, what are their thoughts on the efficacy (or lack thereof) of drug laws in the United States? Because while the US never went as far as some countries, it went much farther than others and did not see promising results.
piloto_ciego 3y ago
I mean, I fully acknowledge that I have a “bias” in what I believe here, but practically, I want us to make decisions based on the evidence and numbers as a society, not on how it makes us feel? I don’t know if I’m articulating that right, but I want policies that reduce the rate of recidivism more than I want to make the things right by the victims of crime. I can’t change the fact that someone was harmed, but I can support policies that make people less likely to be harmed in the future. This sucks if you’re a victim - I fully acknowledge that. But I want to prevent the next 4 victims, not punish 1 offender. Am I right? I think I might be on the right track, but I don’t know. I think we need to do some real science to find out, and that’s time consuming and expensive. To be honest, racial equity movements, poverty reduction, and unleaded gasoline has probably done more to prevent crime than any punitive tools of the state. But I’m not qualified to really assert that… so even for me it’s “feels all the way down.”

by uticus 3y ago

spamizbad 3y ago

You may not be the right person to ask this, but I'm curious: among ideologues for punishment, what are their thoughts on the efficacy (or lack thereof) of drug laws in the United States? Because while the US never went as far as some countries, it went much farther than others and did not see promising results.

piloto_ciego 3y ago

I mean, I fully acknowledge that I have a “bias” in what I believe here, but practically, I want us to make decisions based on the evidence and numbers as a society, not on how it makes us feel? I don’t know if I’m articulating that right, but I want policies that reduce the rate of recidivism more than I want to make the things right by the victims of crime. I can’t change the fact that someone was harmed, but I can support policies that make people less likely to be harmed in the future. This sucks if you’re a victim - I fully acknowledge that. But I want to prevent the next 4 victims, not punish 1 offender. Am I right? I think I might be on the right track, but I don’t know. I think we need to do some real science to find out, and that’s time consuming and expensive. To be honest, racial equity movements, poverty reduction, and unleaded gasoline has probably done more to prevent crime than any punitive tools of the state. But I’m not qualified to really assert that… so even for me it’s “feels all the way down.”