6 ms·

Or look further and try the Hornblower books? Less naval terminology, sharper characterization.

by dash2 3y ago

marcpaq 3y ago
O'Brian & Forester wrote fun adventures in the golden age of sailing. You can look a little further still to check out Dudley Pope's Ramage series.
AlbertCory 3y ago
I like the naval terminology, even though I don't understand most of it. Not having read the Hornblower books since adolescence, I can't compare them, but on "characterization" : sorry, bro. O'Brian's the master of it. Two very good actors took on Jack and Steven (Russell Crowe and Paul Bettany) and made a classic movie.
- jhbadger 3y ago
  Unfortunately the movie oversimplified the characters. Jack in the books is a complex guy, who has besides his good traits some unpleasant parts (his obsession with making money with get rich quick schemes on land which often land him in debt, and his obsession with taking "prizes" at sea for personal gain more than duty). Crowe's Jack is just a generic hero. And Stephen is a complex guy too, who is an intelligence agent in addition to being a doctor and naturalist. Bettany's Stephen ignores this whole part of his character.
  - AlbertCory 3y ago
    Ok. But you're criticizing the movie, not the books.
dghlsakjg 3y ago
I don’t think that’s fair at all. My advice to people struggling with the naval stuff in Master and Commander is to keep reading. The important stuff gets explained in plain language to the perpetually lubberly Maturin, presumably for the benefit of the reader. Aubrey and Maturin are two of my favorite characters in all of literature. The depth of their motivations, their relationship, and their own personal wants are at the heart of the series. The best parts of the entire series are frequently their adventures on land rather than the purely naval parts.
- weard_beard 3y ago
  The hornblower books are for folks getting bored on their 3rd or 4th read through of the Aubrey/Maturin series :-)
- bouvin 3y ago
  I love the books as well (especially in my very nice Folio Society edition). As for the impossible naval jargon, I found it amusing to see the movie in (Danish) cinema, where the incomprehensible naval terminology was replaced in the subtitles with… incomprehensible Danish naval terminology.
- dash2 3y ago
  I don't mind the naval terminology, it's interesting. But I think Hornblower is deeper than those guys. And... all of literature? I mean, Karamazov?
  - kirrent 3y ago
    I don't want to critique personal taste, because it's ultimately preference and who am I to judge yours? On the other hand, one of O'Brian's strengths is his wonderful characters along with his beautiful prose. Even to the point that later books, like The Thirteen Gun Salute to The Commodore (a 5 book stretch) have an awfully boring and uncompelling series of plots and I still liked them anyway. I do like Hornblower. I've read all the books more than once, I bought the ITV show, and I even hunted down the Gregory Peck adaptation. To me Hornblower was a deeper character than I might have any right to expect in a historical adventure series, but his repetitive self-loathing in the face of his genius (genuinely a compelling choice) grates after so many books and so many successes and he begins to feel like a caricature of himself. Like the grandparent, Aubrey and Maturin are my favourite characters in anything I've read. Everyone will tell you how they and their relationship is wonderfully depicted, but it could also have something to do with how many books there are and how often I've re-read them. At this point they're old friends so it'd be disloyal of me not to love them as much as I do.
  - dghlsakjg 3y ago
    I didn’t think it was necessary to put a disclaimer: they are my favorite characters in all of the literature that I personally have read. I can’t speak to my preferences about the millions of books I haven’t read, Karazamov sadly being one of them. I certainly hope that there are literary characters out there that I would like as much, or more, but I haven't met them yet, and so, continue searching. I haven’t read Hornblower since I was a teenager, so some it might have gone over my head back then. My read on it was that it was more of an adventure story than anything. With the Master and Commander series I often find that the parts where they aren't at sea are the most interesting (The Fortune of War, The Surgeons Mate, Treason's Harbour are three of the books with particularly interesting periods on land). I am also biased since the subtle humor in the books is something I find particularly funny.
legitster 3y ago
I absolutely adore the Hornblower books. Almost anything by CS Forester, really. Patrick O'Brien's books are too dry for me. There's lots of characters stopping and explaining naval terminology to each other, or long conversations about feelings and posturing and etc. In comparison, Forester writing really captures the adventure and gives you the spirit of the era in much less verbose but sharper prose.
- hyperbovine 3y ago
  It's dry in the sense the same sense Jane Austen's fiction is dry: it spends a lot of time chronicling the everyday minutiae of a bygone era. But whereas Austen was writing about her contemporaries, O'Brian does so at a remove of two centuries. As a literary and research achievement it's just .. stunning. I re-read this series at least once every decade, and each time my awe over what he has managed to accomplish in these books somehow increases. There is an old NYT book review (https://www.nytimes.com/1991/01/06/books/an-author-i-d-walk-the-plank-for.html https://www.nytimes.com/1991/01/06/books/an-author-i-d-walk-...) that expresses it better than I can.
hyperbovine 3y ago
My suggestion would be to try the audiobooks instead (the ones narrated by Patrick Tull).
- jhbadger 3y ago
  Yes, those are fun. My idea of what Jack and Stephen sound like in my mind is based on the voices Tull does for them. Although the voices he does for Indian and Chinese characters is a bit cringe.
  - hyperbovine 3y ago
    All his lines as Padeen are super cringeworthy too.
themadturk 3y ago
For those having difficulties with naval terminology, seek out a copy of "A Sea of Words: A Lexicon and Companion to the Complete Seafaring Tales of Patrick O'Brian" by Dean King. Hornblower's naval terminology is the same as O'Brian's, and it's great guide to both.

Or look further and try the Hornblower books? Less naval terminology, sharper characterization.

by dash2 3y ago

Or look further and try the Hornblower books? Less naval terminology, sharper characterization.

O'Brian & Forester wrote fun adventures in the golden age of sailing. You can look a little further still to check out Dudley Pope's Ramage series.

AlbertCory 3y ago

I like the naval terminology, even though I don't understand most of it. Not having read the Hornblower books since adolescence, I can't compare them, but on "characterization" : sorry, bro. O'Brian's the master of it. Two very good actors took on Jack and Steven (Russell Crowe and Paul Bettany) and made a classic movie.

jhbadger 3y ago
Unfortunately the movie oversimplified the characters. Jack in the books is a complex guy, who has besides his good traits some unpleasant parts (his obsession with making money with get rich quick schemes on land which often land him in debt, and his obsession with taking "prizes" at sea for personal gain more than duty). Crowe's Jack is just a generic hero. And Stephen is a complex guy too, who is an intelligence agent in addition to being a doctor and naturalist. Bettany's Stephen ignores this whole part of his character.
- AlbertCory 3y ago
  Ok. But you're criticizing the movie, not the books.

dghlsakjg 3y ago

I don’t think that’s fair at all. My advice to people struggling with the naval stuff in Master and Commander is to keep reading. The important stuff gets explained in plain language to the perpetually lubberly Maturin, presumably for the benefit of the reader. Aubrey and Maturin are two of my favorite characters in all of literature. The depth of their motivations, their relationship, and their own personal wants are at the heart of the series. The best parts of the entire series are frequently their adventures on land rather than the purely naval parts.

weard_beard 3y ago
The hornblower books are for folks getting bored on their 3rd or 4th read through of the Aubrey/Maturin series :-)
bouvin 3y ago
I love the books as well (especially in my very nice Folio Society edition). As for the impossible naval jargon, I found it amusing to see the movie in (Danish) cinema, where the incomprehensible naval terminology was replaced in the subtitles with… incomprehensible Danish naval terminology.
dash2 3y ago
I don't mind the naval terminology, it's interesting. But I think Hornblower is deeper than those guys. And... all of literature? I mean, Karamazov?
- kirrent 3y ago
  I don't want to critique personal taste, because it's ultimately preference and who am I to judge yours? On the other hand, one of O'Brian's strengths is his wonderful characters along with his beautiful prose. Even to the point that later books, like The Thirteen Gun Salute to The Commodore (a 5 book stretch) have an awfully boring and uncompelling series of plots and I still liked them anyway. I do like Hornblower. I've read all the books more than once, I bought the ITV show, and I even hunted down the Gregory Peck adaptation. To me Hornblower was a deeper character than I might have any right to expect in a historical adventure series, but his repetitive self-loathing in the face of his genius (genuinely a compelling choice) grates after so many books and so many successes and he begins to feel like a caricature of himself. Like the grandparent, Aubrey and Maturin are my favourite characters in anything I've read. Everyone will tell you how they and their relationship is wonderfully depicted, but it could also have something to do with how many books there are and how often I've re-read them. At this point they're old friends so it'd be disloyal of me not to love them as much as I do.
- dghlsakjg 3y ago
  I didn’t think it was necessary to put a disclaimer: they are my favorite characters in all of the literature that I personally have read. I can’t speak to my preferences about the millions of books I haven’t read, Karazamov sadly being one of them. I certainly hope that there are literary characters out there that I would like as much, or more, but I haven't met them yet, and so, continue searching. I haven’t read Hornblower since I was a teenager, so some it might have gone over my head back then. My read on it was that it was more of an adventure story than anything. With the Master and Commander series I often find that the parts where they aren't at sea are the most interesting (The Fortune of War, The Surgeons Mate, Treason's Harbour are three of the books with particularly interesting periods on land). I am also biased since the subtle humor in the books is something I find particularly funny.

legitster 3y ago

I absolutely adore the Hornblower books. Almost anything by CS Forester, really. Patrick O'Brien's books are too dry for me. There's lots of characters stopping and explaining naval terminology to each other, or long conversations about feelings and posturing and etc. In comparison, Forester writing really captures the adventure and gives you the spirit of the era in much less verbose but sharper prose.

hyperbovine 3y ago
It's dry in the sense the same sense Jane Austen's fiction is dry: it spends a lot of time chronicling the everyday minutiae of a bygone era. But whereas Austen was writing about her contemporaries, O'Brian does so at a remove of two centuries. As a literary and research achievement it's just .. stunning. I re-read this series at least once every decade, and each time my awe over what he has managed to accomplish in these books somehow increases. There is an old NYT book review (https://www.nytimes.com/1991/01/06/books/an-author-i-d-walk-the-plank-for.html https://www.nytimes.com/1991/01/06/books/an-author-i-d-walk-...) that expresses it better than I can.

hyperbovine 3y ago

My suggestion would be to try the audiobooks instead (the ones narrated by Patrick Tull).

jhbadger 3y ago
Yes, those are fun. My idea of what Jack and Stephen sound like in my mind is based on the voices Tull does for them. Although the voices he does for Indian and Chinese characters is a bit cringe.
- hyperbovine 3y ago
  All his lines as Padeen are super cringeworthy too.

themadturk 3y ago

For those having difficulties with naval terminology, seek out a copy of "A Sea of Words: A Lexicon and Companion to the Complete Seafaring Tales of Patrick O'Brian" by Dean King. Hornblower's naval terminology is the same as O'Brian's, and it's great guide to both.