4 ms·

"except anyone resident in Quebec, Nova Scotia, Yukon, or Ontario"...it is essentially 75% of Canada!

munk-a 3y ago
Quebec is essentially a different country altogether - there are a legion of strange HR rules and requirements that are entirely specific to QC.
- tharmas 3y ago
  Yes, and heavily subsidized by other parts of Canada via transfer payments.
  - munk-a 3y ago
    Well transfer payments are a lot more complicated than some folks would have you believe - Canada as a nation benefits from all our parts being within a common business zone so while some areas are mineral rich other areas have strong service economies that have needed help through the pandemic.
    - switchbak 3y ago
      "Needed help" because the powers of the day decided to lock down the economy far past any reasonable length of time. I suppose if I quit my job I "need help" feeding myself too. Another example is Quebec sitting on a gargantuan natural gas reserve, but preferring to keep it in the ground because it's more advantageous to simply receive payments from other provinces (Alberta). Carbon/emission considerations aside, this shows just how broken the incentive structure is for equalization payments between provinces. But that's just the tip of the iceberg as far as Canadian governmental issues go, and it's hard to know where to start improving things.
      - p_j_w 3y ago
        >Carbon/emission considerations aside This seems like a massive thing to just throw aside.
        cmrdporcupine 3y ago
        He's also neglecting to mention what a mammoth hydroelectric powerhouse Quebec is, because of that, they have a giant surplus of electricity that makes their utility bills extremely cheap relative to anywhere else in North America, helps manufacturing businesses and gives them the ability to export power, to boot. Meanwhile Alberta burns (and leaks) natural gas and coal and gripes because the rest of the country is punishing them for it, and complains to high heaven that we're not making new markets for them (or others) to burn and leak more of it. Quebec and Ontario have prioritized manufacturing over resource extraction, and that benefits their population.
        CarRamrod 3y ago
        Well, if Quebec is the economic powerhouse you claim it is, then surely they will be just fine if the equalization payments stop, right?
        xav0989 3y ago
        The whole point of the equalization payments is to level the playing field regarding the budget of provinces. The formula has to do with the amount of provincial taxation that a province charges its residents versus the rest of Canada. Given that the Quebec income taxes are higher, the province receives transfer payments. Some of the Federal income tax that Quebec residents pay ends up going to the province, so it's not just coming out of the income tax of non-quebec residents.
        switchbak 3y ago
        Sure, but I'm talking specifically about incentives here. If it wasn't for the inverted incentive structure that benefits them (also from fossil fuels, but that money comes from Alberta), I'm sure they'd be more than willing to extract that resource.
    - tharmas 3y ago
      >Canada as a nation benefits from all our parts being within a common business zone But there is no Free Trade between Provinces (Inter-Provincial Trade). Canadian Provinces have more Free Trade with the USA and Mexico than they do with each other. Canada isn't really a country in the economic sense. And aren't there restrictions on professions like Engineers and Nurses such that you can't just pick up sticks and go to work in another Province? There's bureaucratic paperwork to fill out before you are good to go.
cperciva 3y ago
To be fair, Nova Scotia, Yukon, and Ontario each only add a handful of extra nodes. I just didn't want to bother with those because I'm in BC. Quebec is a different matter; far more complicated to calculate payroll deductions for there.
- cmrdporcupine 3y ago
  And if the crazy proposal from the UCP in Alberta to divorce from the CPP and have their own pension system (like Quebec) is successful, it will get even crazier. Imagine the complications of moving back and forth between provinces. Or seasonal work, etc.
  - cperciva 3y ago
    There's several pages of formulas for dealing with people moving between CPP and QPP. So glad I don't have to deal with those.
    - cmrdporcupine 3y ago
      I was born in Alberta and lived there for the first 24ish years of my life, I didn't contribute much when I was there, but it would be something. I shudder to imagine the complications of trying to claim the amounts from that once I retire -- if that proposal happens. Pure insanity.

Quebec is essentially a different country altogether - there are a legion of strange HR rules and requirements that are entirely specific to QC.

tharmas 3y ago
Yes, and heavily subsidized by other parts of Canada via transfer payments.
- munk-a 3y ago
  Well transfer payments are a lot more complicated than some folks would have you believe - Canada as a nation benefits from all our parts being within a common business zone so while some areas are mineral rich other areas have strong service economies that have needed help through the pandemic.
  - switchbak 3y ago
    "Needed help" because the powers of the day decided to lock down the economy far past any reasonable length of time. I suppose if I quit my job I "need help" feeding myself too. Another example is Quebec sitting on a gargantuan natural gas reserve, but preferring to keep it in the ground because it's more advantageous to simply receive payments from other provinces (Alberta). Carbon/emission considerations aside, this shows just how broken the incentive structure is for equalization payments between provinces. But that's just the tip of the iceberg as far as Canadian governmental issues go, and it's hard to know where to start improving things.
    - p_j_w 3y ago
      >Carbon/emission considerations aside This seems like a massive thing to just throw aside.
      - cmrdporcupine 3y ago
        He's also neglecting to mention what a mammoth hydroelectric powerhouse Quebec is, because of that, they have a giant surplus of electricity that makes their utility bills extremely cheap relative to anywhere else in North America, helps manufacturing businesses and gives them the ability to export power, to boot. Meanwhile Alberta burns (and leaks) natural gas and coal and gripes because the rest of the country is punishing them for it, and complains to high heaven that we're not making new markets for them (or others) to burn and leak more of it. Quebec and Ontario have prioritized manufacturing over resource extraction, and that benefits their population.
        CarRamrod 3y ago
        Well, if Quebec is the economic powerhouse you claim it is, then surely they will be just fine if the equalization payments stop, right?
        xav0989 3y ago
        The whole point of the equalization payments is to level the playing field regarding the budget of provinces. The formula has to do with the amount of provincial taxation that a province charges its residents versus the rest of Canada. Given that the Quebec income taxes are higher, the province receives transfer payments. Some of the Federal income tax that Quebec residents pay ends up going to the province, so it's not just coming out of the income tax of non-quebec residents.
      - switchbak 3y ago
        Sure, but I'm talking specifically about incentives here. If it wasn't for the inverted incentive structure that benefits them (also from fossil fuels, but that money comes from Alberta), I'm sure they'd be more than willing to extract that resource.
  - tharmas 3y ago
    >Canada as a nation benefits from all our parts being within a common business zone But there is no Free Trade between Provinces (Inter-Provincial Trade). Canadian Provinces have more Free Trade with the USA and Mexico than they do with each other. Canada isn't really a country in the economic sense. And aren't there restrictions on professions like Engineers and Nurses such that you can't just pick up sticks and go to work in another Province? There's bureaucratic paperwork to fill out before you are good to go.

cperciva 3y ago

To be fair, Nova Scotia, Yukon, and Ontario each only add a handful of extra nodes. I just didn't want to bother with those because I'm in BC. Quebec is a different matter; far more complicated to calculate payroll deductions for there.

cmrdporcupine 3y ago
And if the crazy proposal from the UCP in Alberta to divorce from the CPP and have their own pension system (like Quebec) is successful, it will get even crazier. Imagine the complications of moving back and forth between provinces. Or seasonal work, etc.
- cperciva 3y ago
  There's several pages of formulas for dealing with people moving between CPP and QPP. So glad I don't have to deal with those.
  - cmrdporcupine 3y ago
    I was born in Alberta and lived there for the first 24ish years of my life, I didn't contribute much when I was there, but it would be something. I shudder to imagine the complications of trying to claim the amounts from that once I retire -- if that proposal happens. Pure insanity.