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I was not home schooled (I'm not sure such a thing exists in Sweden) but before I started school, my grandparents took care of me while my parents went to work,

by lutorm 15y ago

I was not home schooled (I'm not sure such a thing exists in Sweden) but before I started school, my grandparents took care of me while my parents went to work, so I didn't go to daycare or anything like that. Even these days into middle age I'm clearly more "socially challenged" than most people. I remember school being quite a shock to me, and I do think that it would have been useful to be exposed to more kids at a young age. So I guess what I'm feeling is that school isn't just for learning stuff, it's for learning to live in a world that's full of people, most very different from you, and where knowing how to interact easily with them probably is just as important as learning any particular "school stuff". Against this background, I'm fundamentally skeptic that the concept of home schooling really would be an overall positive in someone's life.

roguecoder 15y ago
I should add a disclaimer to my condemnation: I have seen some kids who did well "home schooled", but they were what Americans call "unschoolers" where the parents didn't teach them at all and instead they are expected to be out in the world learning through social interactions with non-family. Most of them found real work to do, had fun playing with kids their own age in the area, helped care for younger kids and learned about different topics they ran across. They picked up responsibility and deadlines through real work, and research through being interested in things. Around high school they'd often take some classes at high schools or community colleges, but instead of being less socialized than the other kids there they were more socialized and were already used to having to interact with other kids in unstructured environments. Instead of spending time with their parents or in structured activities (home schooling) or just with kids their own age and structured activities (traditional schooling), they had the chance to learn from unstructured social interactions with everyone from infants to adults. I think the concept of nuclear families is pretty unnatural, but so is a society stratified by age. Add to that that most teenagers aren't doing anything that matters and you get the frustrated, pointless bickering of high school. I don't think structured activities combined with opting out are a good substitute, but it is possible to provide teenagers with meaningful work, personal agency and the time and opportunity for unstructured social interactions. The problem is that that requires giving up a lot of control over children (and the myth of "child" as vastly different than everyone else), and almost no parents I've met are willing to do so. They're happy to drive to 1001 piano lessons and organized play dates and craft projects, but not to let their kid go take off through the neighborhood on their own. They don't want their 14 year old to be forced to sit in class, but want to know where the kid is at all times and make sure there is always a trusted adult present. Kids are supposed to fear strangers, not interact with them. They need to be taught, not discover things for themselves (especially if what they discover is different than what you believe!) There has to be a better way to keep adults from exploiting teenagers than locking teenagers away, but we haven't apparently found it yet. Everyone wants to shelter, protect and control teenagers. If we take that as a given, at least high school gives kids the advantage of numbers over adults and the chance to learn from one another on the fringes. It doesn't mean it is ideal, but I do think it is better than telling kids they don't need to interact with the world.
xixi77 15y ago
There is definitely a pattern in these answers -- we see people who think they missed socialization because they were homeschooled, or didn't go to preschool like you, or those who didn't miss any of that and still didn't learn the "101 things". My experience is somewhat similar to yours, but I think that this is an issue where some people are able just naturally learn how to recognize the social cues -- and do not have trouble at any point, and those who have no that ability or have it at a very low level -- and just "do not get it" until told explicitly. It does seem to be an in-born ability - the reason I got pulled out of the pre-school was partly because I couldn't get along with anyone there and hated every moment of it. I doubt any more of that exposure would have made anything better.

by lutorm 15y ago

roguecoder 15y ago

I should add a disclaimer to my condemnation: I have seen some kids who did well "home schooled", but they were what Americans call "unschoolers" where the parents didn't teach them at all and instead they are expected to be out in the world learning through social interactions with non-family. Most of them found real work to do, had fun playing with kids their own age in the area, helped care for younger kids and learned about different topics they ran across. They picked up responsibility and deadlines through real work, and research through being interested in things. Around high school they'd often take some classes at high schools or community colleges, but instead of being less socialized than the other kids there they were more socialized and were already used to having to interact with other kids in unstructured environments. Instead of spending time with their parents or in structured activities (home schooling) or just with kids their own age and structured activities (traditional schooling), they had the chance to learn from unstructured social interactions with everyone from infants to adults. I think the concept of nuclear families is pretty unnatural, but so is a society stratified by age. Add to that that most teenagers aren't doing anything that matters and you get the frustrated, pointless bickering of high school. I don't think structured activities combined with opting out are a good substitute, but it is possible to provide teenagers with meaningful work, personal agency and the time and opportunity for unstructured social interactions. The problem is that that requires giving up a lot of control over children (and the myth of "child" as vastly different than everyone else), and almost no parents I've met are willing to do so. They're happy to drive to 1001 piano lessons and organized play dates and craft projects, but not to let their kid go take off through the neighborhood on their own. They don't want their 14 year old to be forced to sit in class, but want to know where the kid is at all times and make sure there is always a trusted adult present. Kids are supposed to fear strangers, not interact with them. They need to be taught, not discover things for themselves (especially if what they discover is different than what you believe!) There has to be a better way to keep adults from exploiting teenagers than locking teenagers away, but we haven't apparently found it yet. Everyone wants to shelter, protect and control teenagers. If we take that as a given, at least high school gives kids the advantage of numbers over adults and the chance to learn from one another on the fringes. It doesn't mean it is ideal, but I do think it is better than telling kids they don't need to interact with the world.

xixi77 15y ago

There is definitely a pattern in these answers -- we see people who think they missed socialization because they were homeschooled, or didn't go to preschool like you, or those who didn't miss any of that and still didn't learn the "101 things". My experience is somewhat similar to yours, but I think that this is an issue where some people are able just naturally learn how to recognize the social cues -- and do not have trouble at any point, and those who have no that ability or have it at a very low level -- and just "do not get it" until told explicitly. It does seem to be an in-born ability - the reason I got pulled out of the pre-school was partly because I couldn't get along with anyone there and hated every moment of it. I doubt any more of that exposure would have made anything better.