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Nobel laureate Yunus sentenced to jail in Bangladesh

45 points by vinnyvichy 3y ago

ImAnAmateur 3y ago
This is very light on details for those who know nothing about it.
- paulette449 3y ago
  "Prof Yunus' supporters say the case is politically motivated " Bangladeshi elections are in 5 days (Jan 7th). The Guardian has more coverage: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/jan/01/nobel-laureate-muhammad-yunus-convicted-bangladesh https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/jan/01/nobel-laureate...
mistrial9 3y ago
historically, a national religion has taken the role of support for the poor. It appears superficially that Prof. Yanus is advocating a capital model for economics, which conflicts or is a power-rival to a state religious model. Honestly, as an American, the support of Richard Branson and The Hillary appears to be damaging, since the politics of Islam are often about rejecting Western European authority. disclaimer- not involved, not near this issue
alephnerd 3y ago
To me at least, Yunus appeared to be just another oligarch trying to enter the political arena - similar to Shinawatra in Thailand, Poroshenko in Ukraine, and Garibashvili in Georgia. He attempted to enter the political arena in the 2000s with what appeared to be the backing of the Military [0][1] and he has a history of committing tax fraud and corruption [2][3] (though, tbf, any businessperson in Asia has to do this). He also seems to use the same PR and Lobbying firm that Azerbaijan, Rwanda, Qatar, Milo Đukanović (Montenegro's former strongman and an actual mob boss), Muhammadu Buhari (former Dictator and later elected President of Nigeria), Uhuru Kenyatta (former President of Kenya wanted for rapes and murders in the aftermath of the 2013 election), and a couple conglomerates affiliated to Hezbollah use as well [4] Sheikh Hasina is no angel, but it doesn't seem like Yunus or Grameen Bank/Telecom were ethical either [5] I'm curious whether my read on this is correct though. I'd appreciate Banglas giving me feedback (especially Raynier) [0] - http://www.thedailystar.net/2007/02/23/d7022301075.htm http://www.thedailystar.net/2007/02/23/d7022301075.htm [1] - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/6530781.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/6530781.stm [2] - https://www.occrp.org/en/daily/2137-bangladesh-microfinance-innovator-accused-of-tax-fraud https://www.occrp.org/en/daily/2137-bangladesh-microfinance-... [3] - https://www.devex.com/news/norway-orders-probe-on-grameen-aid-diversion-71432 https://www.devex.com/news/norway-orders-probe-on-grameen-ai... [4] - https://btpadvisers.com/case-studies/muhammad-yunus https://btpadvisers.com/case-studies/muhammad-yunus [5] - https://www.thestatesman.com/opinion/india-fuelled-hasinas-decision-oust-yunus-1502743143.html https://www.thestatesman.com/opinion/india-fuelled-hasinas-d...
- rayiner 3y ago
  > Sheikh Hasina is no angel, but it doesn't seem like Yunus or Grameen Bank/Telecom were ethical either [5] I think this about sums it up. Yunus was a hero in the country for his pioneering work, but stepped out of his lane by entering politics. He misunderstood that Bangladesh is a quasi-democracy. Hasina has strong popular support, but also isn't willing to allow people to challenge her. And the nature of Yunus's businesses--providing capital to the poor--makes him an easy target. Hasina will lean into neoliberalism as long as it keeps her GDP growth numbers up, but will also wage populist attacks on Yunus for charging interest to the poor. I don't think Yunus is totally clean, but I also don't think he's in the same league as the other guys you mention. It's virtually impossible to be honest in Bangladesh. I don't think you can run a big business like Grameenphone without breaking a lot of laws and paying a lot of bribes. I should note that the potential military intervention in Bangladesh politics in the 2006-2008 timeframe was quite an unusual situation. After Ershad's fall, the Bangladesh military has been relatively weak politically, much more comparable to India than Pakistan. Many people I know entertained the idea of the military deposing Khaleda Zia and Sheikh Hasina so the country could start with a clean slate.
  - screye 3y ago
    It is important to put 3rd world systems into this sort of sympathetic context. Sheikh Hasina had every living member of her family slaughtered by the erstwhile miltary. This part of the world necessitates constant paranoia. In many ways, Bangladesh's quasi democracy state is a major achievement when compared to Bangladesh and the Neighborhood's past. Biden's activist-interventionist tendencies have led to pressure on 3rd world democracies to emulate western democracies. This has been especially evident with Bangladesh. I hope (naively) that the west will one day look at its track record on disrupting stable govts, and stop adding friction where it serves no geopolitical benefits. It's about 50 years too late for such kissinger-esque adventurism.
    - rayiner 3y ago
      I agree with the general sentiment, though not for sympathetic reasons. Bangladeshis are not culturally capable of western democracy. Maybe someday, but certainly not now. But they are who they are, and Hasina’s strongman regime is probably the best that can be done at this time. So I agree that Biden’s interventionism about human rights and democracy threatens to disrupt a quasi-democracy that is at least functioning and make things worse.
sagman 3y ago
I never understood what motivated Nobel Committee to give him a Nobel for Peace. If it was economics I would understand. Grameen Bank and its insane interest rates are well known for making poor debtors commit suicide. Since there is no credit system in Bangladesh, they relied on social pressure to make debtors pay off the loan, by making the debtors family/ neighbors not credit worthy if debtor fails to pay off the loan. It works great until it doesn't. And this whole thing of high interest rate loan is not new in the region. I never heard good things about Yunus outside the "intellectual" circles in Bangladesh. And outside Bangladesh he seems to be the savior of the country, with a big presence in the elite circles of the west. I do not know if he actually committed the crimes he is convicted for, but I would not be surprised if he did do that. Every businesses do that back there.
- felixg3 3y ago
  A good read on the issue presented by sagman is Financializing Poverty Labor and Risk in Indian Microfinance by Sohini Kar. Although focussing on India, the book does a great job at underlining the issues with microfinance. https://doi.org/10.1515/9781503605893 https://doi.org/10.1515/9781503605893

45 points by vinnyvichy 3y ago

ImAnAmateur 3y ago

This is very light on details for those who know nothing about it.

paulette449 3y ago
"Prof Yunus' supporters say the case is politically motivated " Bangladeshi elections are in 5 days (Jan 7th). The Guardian has more coverage: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/jan/01/nobel-laureate-muhammad-yunus-convicted-bangladesh https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/jan/01/nobel-laureate...

mistrial9 3y ago

historically, a national religion has taken the role of support for the poor. It appears superficially that Prof. Yanus is advocating a capital model for economics, which conflicts or is a power-rival to a state religious model. Honestly, as an American, the support of Richard Branson and The Hillary appears to be damaging, since the politics of Islam are often about rejecting Western European authority. disclaimer- not involved, not near this issue

alephnerd 3y ago

To me at least, Yunus appeared to be just another oligarch trying to enter the political arena - similar to Shinawatra in Thailand, Poroshenko in Ukraine, and Garibashvili in Georgia. He attempted to enter the political arena in the 2000s with what appeared to be the backing of the Military [0][1] and he has a history of committing tax fraud and corruption [2][3] (though, tbf, any businessperson in Asia has to do this). He also seems to use the same PR and Lobbying firm that Azerbaijan, Rwanda, Qatar, Milo Đukanović (Montenegro's former strongman and an actual mob boss), Muhammadu Buhari (former Dictator and later elected President of Nigeria), Uhuru Kenyatta (former President of Kenya wanted for rapes and murders in the aftermath of the 2013 election), and a couple conglomerates affiliated to Hezbollah use as well [4] Sheikh Hasina is no angel, but it doesn't seem like Yunus or Grameen Bank/Telecom were ethical either [5] I'm curious whether my read on this is correct though. I'd appreciate Banglas giving me feedback (especially Raynier) [0] - http://www.thedailystar.net/2007/02/23/d7022301075.htm http://www.thedailystar.net/2007/02/23/d7022301075.htm [1] - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/6530781.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/6530781.stm [2] - https://www.occrp.org/en/daily/2137-bangladesh-microfinance-innovator-accused-of-tax-fraud https://www.occrp.org/en/daily/2137-bangladesh-microfinance-... [3] - https://www.devex.com/news/norway-orders-probe-on-grameen-aid-diversion-71432 https://www.devex.com/news/norway-orders-probe-on-grameen-ai... [4] - https://btpadvisers.com/case-studies/muhammad-yunus https://btpadvisers.com/case-studies/muhammad-yunus [5] - https://www.thestatesman.com/opinion/india-fuelled-hasinas-decision-oust-yunus-1502743143.html https://www.thestatesman.com/opinion/india-fuelled-hasinas-d...

rayiner 3y ago
> Sheikh Hasina is no angel, but it doesn't seem like Yunus or Grameen Bank/Telecom were ethical either [5] I think this about sums it up. Yunus was a hero in the country for his pioneering work, but stepped out of his lane by entering politics. He misunderstood that Bangladesh is a quasi-democracy. Hasina has strong popular support, but also isn't willing to allow people to challenge her. And the nature of Yunus's businesses--providing capital to the poor--makes him an easy target. Hasina will lean into neoliberalism as long as it keeps her GDP growth numbers up, but will also wage populist attacks on Yunus for charging interest to the poor. I don't think Yunus is totally clean, but I also don't think he's in the same league as the other guys you mention. It's virtually impossible to be honest in Bangladesh. I don't think you can run a big business like Grameenphone without breaking a lot of laws and paying a lot of bribes. I should note that the potential military intervention in Bangladesh politics in the 2006-2008 timeframe was quite an unusual situation. After Ershad's fall, the Bangladesh military has been relatively weak politically, much more comparable to India than Pakistan. Many people I know entertained the idea of the military deposing Khaleda Zia and Sheikh Hasina so the country could start with a clean slate.
- screye 3y ago
  It is important to put 3rd world systems into this sort of sympathetic context. Sheikh Hasina had every living member of her family slaughtered by the erstwhile miltary. This part of the world necessitates constant paranoia. In many ways, Bangladesh's quasi democracy state is a major achievement when compared to Bangladesh and the Neighborhood's past. Biden's activist-interventionist tendencies have led to pressure on 3rd world democracies to emulate western democracies. This has been especially evident with Bangladesh. I hope (naively) that the west will one day look at its track record on disrupting stable govts, and stop adding friction where it serves no geopolitical benefits. It's about 50 years too late for such kissinger-esque adventurism.
  - rayiner 3y ago
    I agree with the general sentiment, though not for sympathetic reasons. Bangladeshis are not culturally capable of western democracy. Maybe someday, but certainly not now. But they are who they are, and Hasina’s strongman regime is probably the best that can be done at this time. So I agree that Biden’s interventionism about human rights and democracy threatens to disrupt a quasi-democracy that is at least functioning and make things worse.

sagman 3y ago

I never understood what motivated Nobel Committee to give him a Nobel for Peace. If it was economics I would understand. Grameen Bank and its insane interest rates are well known for making poor debtors commit suicide. Since there is no credit system in Bangladesh, they relied on social pressure to make debtors pay off the loan, by making the debtors family/ neighbors not credit worthy if debtor fails to pay off the loan. It works great until it doesn't. And this whole thing of high interest rate loan is not new in the region. I never heard good things about Yunus outside the "intellectual" circles in Bangladesh. And outside Bangladesh he seems to be the savior of the country, with a big presence in the elite circles of the west. I do not know if he actually committed the crimes he is convicted for, but I would not be surprised if he did do that. Every businesses do that back there.

felixg3 3y ago
A good read on the issue presented by sagman is Financializing Poverty Labor and Risk in Indian Microfinance by Sohini Kar. Although focussing on India, the book does a great job at underlining the issues with microfinance. https://doi.org/10.1515/9781503605893 https://doi.org/10.1515/9781503605893