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Members of my family require medication (epipen, some various pills), and I keep that along with a flashlight (in case I need to administer in pitch black) in a

Members of my family require medication (epipen, some various pills), and I keep that along with a flashlight (in case I need to administer in pitch black) in a small haversack. I would probably try to take that with me, as I would hate to survive the crash but then have a fatal medical event in the aftermath and not have the tools. I do feel conflicted since the no luggage mantra has been drilled in for decades.

phkahler 3y ago
>> I would probably try to take that with me, as I would hate to survive the crash but then have a fatal medical event in the aftermath and not have the tools. But you might just die in the fire yourself, prioritizing a hypothetical emergency over a real one. There would also be plenty of medical personnel present once you get off the plane, they probably won't let you leave the scene without talking to one.
- anigbrowl 3y ago
  It's fine to take something small you can carry in one hand/keep with you through the whole flight without it being a problem. It's the luggage in the overhead baggage compartments that needs to be abandoned.
- ajross 3y ago
  > But you might just die in the fire yourself, prioritizing a hypothetical emergency over a real one The Two Failure Fallacy is a fatal flaw of human reasoning. It's almost never correct to engineer anything on the assumption of two bad things happening simultaneously. You do your analysis based on individual/uncorrelated failure modes. And only then do you make design choices (c.f. "defense in depth", "redundancy", etc...) about how much the interactions overlap and what the tradeoffs are. In this case, duh. Positing that emergency medical personnel are somehow unable to handle an allergy attack is silly.
  - nytesky 3y ago
    Well my problem is the conditions of an airline crash (the smoke, extreme heat, etc) are triggers for our disease. It’s not a simple as a peanut allergy where you just avoid eating a certain food. I’m not convinced that medical personnel would be on hand that quickly for all emergency landings — sure if you are at a major airport. But they may not notice someone who collapsed after being triaged away from the more severely injured.
  - whatshisface 3y ago
    If you're in the market for a real HN style reply, actually, almost every aviation disaster involves two or more things happening the wrong way simultaneously. Usually more than five.
    - ajross 3y ago
      Which is sort of the exception that proves the rule though, isn't it? Aviation is outrageously safe, such that all the low hanging fruit has long since been picked and they're finally cleaning up the uncorrelated failures. Other areas of engineering aren't nearly so advanced, c.f. Fukushima, which happened because of the converse failure: the designers treated two failures (power grid failure and flooded backup generators) as uncorrelated and independent when they weren't (because tsunamis follow earthquakes).
  - phkahler 3y ago
    >> You do your analysis based on individual/uncorrelated failure modes. May I introduce you to Fault Tree Analysis? NUREG 0492 https://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/doc-collections/nuregs/staff/sr0492/index.html https://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/doc-collections/nuregs/staff/... One result of that is to show that there are no double failures with common cause, rather than just assuming that to be true.
blitzar 3y ago
[flagged]
- wkat4242 3y ago
  Not the OP but I wouldn't call lifesaving medical equipment like an EpiPen a convenience. Though it would be better to just stick it in a pocket. I always carry a flashlight on my keychain as well.
  - blitzar 3y ago
    There is an ambulance at the bottom of the slide, 90 seconds is the target time for evacuating the entire plane in an emergency. Having an EpiPen in the 90 seconds between your seat and the ambulance while fire is engulfing the tin can with ~400 people trying to get out 2 doors is 100% a luxury. (for the vast majority of humanity, having an EpiPen at all is a luxury)
- ativzzz 3y ago
  Why? A good chunk of humanity showed via covid that they are not interested in inconveniencing themselves for potentially reducing overall harm to others.
  - thegrim33 3y ago
    Because they had a different analysis of the situation than you did, not because they had the same analysis and just chose to be assholes.
    - ativzzz 3y ago
      I never said they were assholes, I just said they chose not to inconvenience themselves. Some people wore masks regardless of how much they actually helped - on the off chance they actually helped at all - they chose to inconvenience themselves
- Vecr 3y ago
  I do more or less prefer my life (as well as the things that go along with it, health, physical safety, ...) more than some derived number of other people, for various complicated reasons. In some situations it could get as high as the single digit trillions, but it's usually in the hundreds to thousands range or even less.
werdnapk 3y ago
Those drugs are still available outside of your luggage. Your need for that stuff is convenience. Everybody else on the flight would prefer to have their luggage too.
steveBK123 3y ago
If the medical condition is so dire that medicine must be kept on hand then it should be in your pockets, not tucked away in luggage. What is the probability of being stung by a bee or eating a bag of nuts between your seat, the slide, and the ambulances rushing to the scene to rescue people? Otherwise by this logic, just about everyone has a reason to self-justify needing to get into their luggage in an emergency evacuation event. Target to evacuate planes in an emergency is 90 seconds. Contrast with regular deplaning with luggage which takes upwards of 15 minutes. So the plane must evacuate at 10x speed in order to save lives.
- nytesky 3y ago
  I’m guessing you aren’t carrying an epi regularly — they seem likely to be broken if in my pocket. It’s not a pocket sized form factor. The bag I have is about the size of two croissants — I keep it under seat in front of me or in my lap. But this topic has inspired me to improve my process, so I would like to find a money belt or shoulder holster style bag to carry meds and epi while traveling. Basically body hugging. Any help in finding something that isn’t from Temu, or some random drop shipper? I found one eagle creek bag but would prefer a shoulder style?
  - Symbiote 3y ago
    Isn't an epi pen a very common medicine, which is available pretty much worldwide?
    - bombcar 3y ago
      It’s hard to imagine a survivable emergency landing that doesn’t also include hordes of ambulances and emergency personnel descending upon it.
google234123 3y ago
You need to break the rules, risk others lives, and grab your carryon in an airport in a major city for an epipen? How many hospitals, ambulances, and first aid stations are within 5k of you would you guess?

phkahler 3y ago

>> I would probably try to take that with me, as I would hate to survive the crash but then have a fatal medical event in the aftermath and not have the tools. But you might just die in the fire yourself, prioritizing a hypothetical emergency over a real one. There would also be plenty of medical personnel present once you get off the plane, they probably won't let you leave the scene without talking to one.

anigbrowl 3y ago
It's fine to take something small you can carry in one hand/keep with you through the whole flight without it being a problem. It's the luggage in the overhead baggage compartments that needs to be abandoned.
ajross 3y ago
> But you might just die in the fire yourself, prioritizing a hypothetical emergency over a real one The Two Failure Fallacy is a fatal flaw of human reasoning. It's almost never correct to engineer anything on the assumption of two bad things happening simultaneously. You do your analysis based on individual/uncorrelated failure modes. And only then do you make design choices (c.f. "defense in depth", "redundancy", etc...) about how much the interactions overlap and what the tradeoffs are. In this case, duh. Positing that emergency medical personnel are somehow unable to handle an allergy attack is silly.
- nytesky 3y ago
  Well my problem is the conditions of an airline crash (the smoke, extreme heat, etc) are triggers for our disease. It’s not a simple as a peanut allergy where you just avoid eating a certain food. I’m not convinced that medical personnel would be on hand that quickly for all emergency landings — sure if you are at a major airport. But they may not notice someone who collapsed after being triaged away from the more severely injured.
- whatshisface 3y ago
  If you're in the market for a real HN style reply, actually, almost every aviation disaster involves two or more things happening the wrong way simultaneously. Usually more than five.
  - ajross 3y ago
    Which is sort of the exception that proves the rule though, isn't it? Aviation is outrageously safe, such that all the low hanging fruit has long since been picked and they're finally cleaning up the uncorrelated failures. Other areas of engineering aren't nearly so advanced, c.f. Fukushima, which happened because of the converse failure: the designers treated two failures (power grid failure and flooded backup generators) as uncorrelated and independent when they weren't (because tsunamis follow earthquakes).
- phkahler 3y ago
  >> You do your analysis based on individual/uncorrelated failure modes. May I introduce you to Fault Tree Analysis? NUREG 0492 https://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/doc-collections/nuregs/staff/sr0492/index.html https://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/doc-collections/nuregs/staff/... One result of that is to show that there are no double failures with common cause, rather than just assuming that to be true.

blitzar 3y ago

[flagged]

wkat4242 3y ago
Not the OP but I wouldn't call lifesaving medical equipment like an EpiPen a convenience. Though it would be better to just stick it in a pocket. I always carry a flashlight on my keychain as well.
- blitzar 3y ago
  There is an ambulance at the bottom of the slide, 90 seconds is the target time for evacuating the entire plane in an emergency. Having an EpiPen in the 90 seconds between your seat and the ambulance while fire is engulfing the tin can with ~400 people trying to get out 2 doors is 100% a luxury. (for the vast majority of humanity, having an EpiPen at all is a luxury)
ativzzz 3y ago
Why? A good chunk of humanity showed via covid that they are not interested in inconveniencing themselves for potentially reducing overall harm to others.
- thegrim33 3y ago
  Because they had a different analysis of the situation than you did, not because they had the same analysis and just chose to be assholes.
  - ativzzz 3y ago
    I never said they were assholes, I just said they chose not to inconvenience themselves. Some people wore masks regardless of how much they actually helped - on the off chance they actually helped at all - they chose to inconvenience themselves
Vecr 3y ago
I do more or less prefer my life (as well as the things that go along with it, health, physical safety, ...) more than some derived number of other people, for various complicated reasons. In some situations it could get as high as the single digit trillions, but it's usually in the hundreds to thousands range or even less.

werdnapk 3y ago

Those drugs are still available outside of your luggage. Your need for that stuff is convenience. Everybody else on the flight would prefer to have their luggage too.

steveBK123 3y ago

If the medical condition is so dire that medicine must be kept on hand then it should be in your pockets, not tucked away in luggage. What is the probability of being stung by a bee or eating a bag of nuts between your seat, the slide, and the ambulances rushing to the scene to rescue people? Otherwise by this logic, just about everyone has a reason to self-justify needing to get into their luggage in an emergency evacuation event. Target to evacuate planes in an emergency is 90 seconds. Contrast with regular deplaning with luggage which takes upwards of 15 minutes. So the plane must evacuate at 10x speed in order to save lives.

nytesky 3y ago
I’m guessing you aren’t carrying an epi regularly — they seem likely to be broken if in my pocket. It’s not a pocket sized form factor. The bag I have is about the size of two croissants — I keep it under seat in front of me or in my lap. But this topic has inspired me to improve my process, so I would like to find a money belt or shoulder holster style bag to carry meds and epi while traveling. Basically body hugging. Any help in finding something that isn’t from Temu, or some random drop shipper? I found one eagle creek bag but would prefer a shoulder style?
- Symbiote 3y ago
  Isn't an epi pen a very common medicine, which is available pretty much worldwide?
  - bombcar 3y ago
    It’s hard to imagine a survivable emergency landing that doesn’t also include hordes of ambulances and emergency personnel descending upon it.

google234123 3y ago

You need to break the rules, risk others lives, and grab your carryon in an airport in a major city for an epipen? How many hospitals, ambulances, and first aid stations are within 5k of you would you guess?