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In my experience, working with people from Canada to Argentina, everyone has said that "America" in their common vernacular means the US of A, and "Americans" a

In my experience, working with people from Canada to Argentina, everyone has said that "America" in their common vernacular means the US of A, and "Americans" accordingly. But I wonder if this isn't just the US version of your Mandarin step 4. The US has dominated the global cultural conversation and the "other americans" have given up or never thought to challenge it. ... Distantly related: I have spoken to Mexicans who are annoyed that Americans frequently (wrongly) think that only Canada and the US are "North America".

gwd 3y ago
> The US has dominated the global cultural conversation and the "other americans" have given up or never thought to challenge it. To be equivalent, it would have to be the US saying that Canadians and Mexicans were "really" just "states" of America (as Beijing insists that Cantonese is "really" just a "dialect" of Chinese) and intentionally attempting to marginalize Canadian / Mexican distinctives. I don't think I'd mind calling Mandarin "Chinese" if they didn't then insist that Cantonese is also "Chinese", use that to gaslight Cantonese speakers into thinking that their spoken language wasn't a real language, but "full of slang", and that their written language needed to be closer to Mandarin to be "correct Chinese".
- quesera 3y ago
  Intent is different (and important), but I was wondering if the effect might be similar, regardless of intent.
edgyquant 3y ago
Do Americans frequently think that? That’s a surprise to me as everyone is taught in school that Mexico is part of North America and I’ve never met an American who thought otherwise
- quesera 3y ago
  Apparently, frequently enough that the Mexicans I spoke to were aware of it and had thoughts on the matter. In general, they are very aware of the political currents in the US seeking to marginalize/disparage Mexico and Mexicans. And, we are taught a lot of things in school that are not retained. Some 50% of American high school graduates can't find Florida on a map.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- CoastalCoder 3y ago
  > Do Americans frequently think that? Not in my experience (lifelong American). I'm not aware of any project to make people think all of North and South America are, in fact, rightly part of the U.S.[1] The only slightly similar thing I can recall is an impression I formed in the 1980s: the global reach of Hollywood's TV and films gave non-American's a very skewed view of life in America. [1] other than America's Westward expansion, and as far south as the Rio Grande river. But IIUC those were militaristic expansions, not mere cultural imperialism.
  - quesera 3y ago
    > I'm not aware of any project to make people think all of North and South America are, in fact, rightly part of the U.S.[1] Apologies, I might not have been clear. The annoyance from Mexican friends is that Americans (apparently) often think that Canada and the US are "North America", and Mexico and southward are "South America". Or that "Central America" is a continent, and that Mexico is part of that continent. Boiled down, the erroneous belief is that Canada and the US are part of "North America", and Mexico is part of something else. I can't evaluate this on its merits. I have a good memory for geography, and zero confusion on this matter. Not all Americans share these traits (there is plenty of evidence for this!). And I am not a Mexican who has ever fielded the situation with a confused American, but I take them at their word.

gwd 3y ago

> The US has dominated the global cultural conversation and the "other americans" have given up or never thought to challenge it. To be equivalent, it would have to be the US saying that Canadians and Mexicans were "really" just "states" of America (as Beijing insists that Cantonese is "really" just a "dialect" of Chinese) and intentionally attempting to marginalize Canadian / Mexican distinctives. I don't think I'd mind calling Mandarin "Chinese" if they didn't then insist that Cantonese is also "Chinese", use that to gaslight Cantonese speakers into thinking that their spoken language wasn't a real language, but "full of slang", and that their written language needed to be closer to Mandarin to be "correct Chinese".

quesera 3y ago
Intent is different (and important), but I was wondering if the effect might be similar, regardless of intent.

edgyquant 3y ago

Do Americans frequently think that? That’s a surprise to me as everyone is taught in school that Mexico is part of North America and I’ve never met an American who thought otherwise

quesera 3y ago
Apparently, frequently enough that the Mexicans I spoke to were aware of it and had thoughts on the matter. In general, they are very aware of the political currents in the US seeking to marginalize/disparage Mexico and Mexicans. And, we are taught a lot of things in school that are not retained. Some 50% of American high school graduates can't find Florida on a map.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
CoastalCoder 3y ago
> Do Americans frequently think that? Not in my experience (lifelong American). I'm not aware of any project to make people think all of North and South America are, in fact, rightly part of the U.S.[1] The only slightly similar thing I can recall is an impression I formed in the 1980s: the global reach of Hollywood's TV and films gave non-American's a very skewed view of life in America. [1] other than America's Westward expansion, and as far south as the Rio Grande river. But IIUC those were militaristic expansions, not mere cultural imperialism.
- quesera 3y ago
  > I'm not aware of any project to make people think all of North and South America are, in fact, rightly part of the U.S.[1] Apologies, I might not have been clear. The annoyance from Mexican friends is that Americans (apparently) often think that Canada and the US are "North America", and Mexico and southward are "South America". Or that "Central America" is a continent, and that Mexico is part of that continent. Boiled down, the erroneous belief is that Canada and the US are part of "North America", and Mexico is part of something else. I can't evaluate this on its merits. I have a good memory for geography, and zero confusion on this matter. Not all Americans share these traits (there is plenty of evidence for this!). And I am not a Mexican who has ever fielded the situation with a confused American, but I take them at their word.