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I dunno skipping breakfast makes me way more productive at work. The only reason I don't do that all the time is because I want to build muscle.

piva00 3y ago
Skipping breakfast will not change your muscle building if you are eating enough calories and protein. I personally know a few bodybuilders who have been strictly doing intermittent fasting for years, you need to get your macros, breakfast isn't necessary.
- edanm 3y ago
  Technically speaking, it appears that to optimize muscle-building, spacing out protein feedings is better, with optimal being 5-7 feedings IIRC. Of course this is only for optimizing - not relevant for almost anyone except elite athletes, I believe.
- kuhewa 3y ago
  Sure it is totally possible, but for most people it will take concerted effort. Most aging people at a relatively healthy weight don't get an optional proportion of protein in their diet, reducing the number of meals makes it only more difficult to do so without careful planning (which most of us don't do with our diets).
  - piva00 3y ago
    There's not much planning involved in consuming whey protein (or a similar protein supplement product). You put 2 scoops in and get some ~50-60g of protein in your diet. It's much, much less effort than measuring/weighing your daily food intake to check if it matches your protein needs. If one is actively working on building muscles there's already a pretty concerted effort to the whole goal, adding some protein supplement to that is much easier than carefully planning your breakfast, lunch, dinner, and snacks to reach your daily intake needs.
    - kuhewa 3y ago
      I agree with all of that and my point still stands. Older people, for which frailty and maintenance of lean muscle mass are real concerns, tend to get suboptimal protein, and they aren't supplementing with whey en masse. Bodybuilders aren't eating low numbers of calories so they as a model are kind of a moot point for this topic There is also a limit to the rate at which you can assimilate amino acids which is why all things being equal spacing out the protein throughout the day is more optimal.
      - piva00 3y ago
        I was specifically replying to someone saying they can't skip breakfast because they want to build muscles. I have not generalised to frail old people or any other case that wasn't the original comment's intent, for that comment my point still stands: there's no need for breakfast if you are managing your macros during the day. I understand your point but it feels to me a little bit of soapboxing. Being more optimal only really matters at a very high level of athleticism goals, if one is at the point where they need to optimise their protein intake windows they'd already know about it given that reaching such high level requires a lot of nutrition knowledge. I'm stating this because there's a tendency on Hacker News comments to overoptimise everything. Yes, there are optimal ways that can give an edge for people requiring that edge but most people here are just normal people who shouldn't at all be caring about that, the tendency to min-maxing will just become an obstacle.
        kuhewa 3y ago
        > Being more optimal only really matters at a very high level of athleticism goals, if one is at the point where they need to optimise their protein intake windows they'd already know about it given that reaching such high level requires a lot of nutrition knowledge. It's not just about anabolic window timing though. In fact, my point in using the word optimal is about the opposite of how you are approaching it above. For the majority of HN audience that fall outside of the switched-on bodybuilder/diet planning over-optimiser type, a restrictive TRF window simply makes it more difficult to get all the protein that one could benefit from. I'm not talking about optimising to the point of diminishing returns; the simple heuristic "don't skip breakfast but have one with protein" can have a significant benefit to the dietary macronutrient composition for many people with no other effort. Because even if they know two scoops of whey after or eating a second chicken breast for dinner might be a good idea, it doesn't always happen because there are more hedonic choices.
- helboi4 3y ago
  I mean its just hard for me to get enough calories that way. Obviously its possible its just really unhelpful since I am someone who doesn't gain weight easily and is very naturally inclined to healthy eating. I am not someone who can just binge eat in a small portion of the day. I am very much in danger of not getting my calories if I don't eat before 11am.
  - piva00 3y ago
    I understand, have you tried adding more healthy oils and nuts/nut butters (peanut butter, almond butter, etc.) to your diet? They are pretty easy ways to add a lot of calories without carbs for people who aren't able to eat a lot of calories otherwise. 1g of olive oil will give you around 9kcal, when I used to track all my daily intake it was around 100+kcal for a tablespoon of olive oil. Peanut/other nuts butter provide a little less calories per gram but add protein to the mix.

piva00 3y ago

Skipping breakfast will not change your muscle building if you are eating enough calories and protein. I personally know a few bodybuilders who have been strictly doing intermittent fasting for years, you need to get your macros, breakfast isn't necessary.

edanm 3y ago
Technically speaking, it appears that to optimize muscle-building, spacing out protein feedings is better, with optimal being 5-7 feedings IIRC. Of course this is only for optimizing - not relevant for almost anyone except elite athletes, I believe.
kuhewa 3y ago
Sure it is totally possible, but for most people it will take concerted effort. Most aging people at a relatively healthy weight don't get an optional proportion of protein in their diet, reducing the number of meals makes it only more difficult to do so without careful planning (which most of us don't do with our diets).
- piva00 3y ago
  There's not much planning involved in consuming whey protein (or a similar protein supplement product). You put 2 scoops in and get some ~50-60g of protein in your diet. It's much, much less effort than measuring/weighing your daily food intake to check if it matches your protein needs. If one is actively working on building muscles there's already a pretty concerted effort to the whole goal, adding some protein supplement to that is much easier than carefully planning your breakfast, lunch, dinner, and snacks to reach your daily intake needs.
  - kuhewa 3y ago
    I agree with all of that and my point still stands. Older people, for which frailty and maintenance of lean muscle mass are real concerns, tend to get suboptimal protein, and they aren't supplementing with whey en masse. Bodybuilders aren't eating low numbers of calories so they as a model are kind of a moot point for this topic There is also a limit to the rate at which you can assimilate amino acids which is why all things being equal spacing out the protein throughout the day is more optimal.
    - piva00 3y ago
      I was specifically replying to someone saying they can't skip breakfast because they want to build muscles. I have not generalised to frail old people or any other case that wasn't the original comment's intent, for that comment my point still stands: there's no need for breakfast if you are managing your macros during the day. I understand your point but it feels to me a little bit of soapboxing. Being more optimal only really matters at a very high level of athleticism goals, if one is at the point where they need to optimise their protein intake windows they'd already know about it given that reaching such high level requires a lot of nutrition knowledge. I'm stating this because there's a tendency on Hacker News comments to overoptimise everything. Yes, there are optimal ways that can give an edge for people requiring that edge but most people here are just normal people who shouldn't at all be caring about that, the tendency to min-maxing will just become an obstacle.
      - kuhewa 3y ago
        > Being more optimal only really matters at a very high level of athleticism goals, if one is at the point where they need to optimise their protein intake windows they'd already know about it given that reaching such high level requires a lot of nutrition knowledge. It's not just about anabolic window timing though. In fact, my point in using the word optimal is about the opposite of how you are approaching it above. For the majority of HN audience that fall outside of the switched-on bodybuilder/diet planning over-optimiser type, a restrictive TRF window simply makes it more difficult to get all the protein that one could benefit from. I'm not talking about optimising to the point of diminishing returns; the simple heuristic "don't skip breakfast but have one with protein" can have a significant benefit to the dietary macronutrient composition for many people with no other effort. Because even if they know two scoops of whey after or eating a second chicken breast for dinner might be a good idea, it doesn't always happen because there are more hedonic choices.
helboi4 3y ago
I mean its just hard for me to get enough calories that way. Obviously its possible its just really unhelpful since I am someone who doesn't gain weight easily and is very naturally inclined to healthy eating. I am not someone who can just binge eat in a small portion of the day. I am very much in danger of not getting my calories if I don't eat before 11am.
- piva00 3y ago
  I understand, have you tried adding more healthy oils and nuts/nut butters (peanut butter, almond butter, etc.) to your diet? They are pretty easy ways to add a lot of calories without carbs for people who aren't able to eat a lot of calories otherwise. 1g of olive oil will give you around 9kcal, when I used to track all my daily intake it was around 100+kcal for a tablespoon of olive oil. Peanut/other nuts butter provide a little less calories per gram but add protein to the mix.