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It doesn't necessarily help. I speak from experience: I was homeschooled and it was terrible. I didn't learn the 101 little tricks to make interacting with fru

It doesn't necessarily help. I speak from experience: I was homeschooled and it was terrible. I didn't learn the 101 little tricks to make interacting with frustrating people that little bit easier, I didn't learn to empathize with people less smart than me and I didn't develop the social intelligence that I believe is vital for long-term success. Any time I had to interact with anyone I felt terrible and awkward and out of place. When I went to college I was as alienated and lonely as everyone else had been in high school and I still didn't have casual friends because I didn't know how to be friends with anyone who didn't already share my interests. I didn't understand letting other people talk in class, or that school was for learning, not achieving things, or that I could make people happy by listening to things I didn't care about (and in the process learn about interesting things I never knew I'd be interested in.) When I got a job I didn't understand that jobs are for collaboration, not just achieving things myself. Most team jobs work best if members are able and willing to sublimate their egos for the good of the group: I was busy being smart and weird. I assumed that because I was right everyone else would, of course, agree with me, and so none of my ideas ever got adopted because I didn't know how to enlist people as allies. I was still super lonely and still hadn't learn how to have casual friends (close friends I always had, one or two, mostly other homeschooled kids, but they were people who could put up with me just the way I was, which was kind of an arrogant asshole.) I eventually sat down and compared myself to people who were less lonely than me and figured out what I could do differently. I realized that I'd rather not be an asshole than be right. I developed an understanding of when and how to ask questions, how to work and, yes, fit in with a group while still keeping myself whole. I learned how to be passionate without being overwhelming. My kids are going to school. I will fight tooth and nail for a safe environment for them with adults who are on their side and not on the side of the bullies, but I want them to grow up knowing that if you tell your friend to fuck off they will stop being your friend because you are an asshole, not because you are weird. If you are not enjoyable to interact with people won't be your friend because friendship isn't an entitlement: it's a collaborative project. It may be that if you find a huge city you can find someone who doesn't mind being told to fuck off, or maybe even who thinks it is cool, but that doesn't mean that prioritizing your weirdness over the comfort of people around you will lead to a fulfilling social life (especially because those people are likely to tell you to fuck off too). Developing friends will probably have as much to do with how we change and grow as it does with leaving suburbia. Besides, we have the Internet now. There is no reason kids can't both learn to be part of suburbia and experience the wide world outside of it at the same time.

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fusiongyro 14y ago
> I was homeschooled and it was terrible. I didn't learn the 101 little tricks to make interacting with frustrating people that little bit easier, I didn't learn to empathize with people less smart than me and I didn't develop the social intelligence that I believe is vital for long-term success. See, I went to a public school and didn't learn that stuff either. Bonus, I got beat up routinely until high school.
- mike_esspe 14y ago
  I didn't learn it in school too, and though i wasn't bullied, i would not send kids to school. I think this is a problem of introversion, not of homeschooling.
lutorm 14y ago
I was not home schooled (I'm not sure such a thing exists in Sweden) but before I started school, my grandparents took care of me while my parents went to work, so I didn't go to daycare or anything like that. Even these days into middle age I'm clearly more "socially challenged" than most people. I remember school being quite a shock to me, and I do think that it would have been useful to be exposed to more kids at a young age. So I guess what I'm feeling is that school isn't just for learning stuff, it's for learning to live in a world that's full of people, most very different from you, and where knowing how to interact easily with them probably is just as important as learning any particular "school stuff". Against this background, I'm fundamentally skeptic that the concept of home schooling really would be an overall positive in someone's life.
- roguecoder 14y ago
  I should add a disclaimer to my condemnation: I have seen some kids who did well "home schooled", but they were what Americans call "unschoolers" where the parents didn't teach them at all and instead they are expected to be out in the world learning through social interactions with non-family. Most of them found real work to do, had fun playing with kids their own age in the area, helped care for younger kids and learned about different topics they ran across. They picked up responsibility and deadlines through real work, and research through being interested in things. Around high school they'd often take some classes at high schools or community colleges, but instead of being less socialized than the other kids there they were more socialized and were already used to having to interact with other kids in unstructured environments. Instead of spending time with their parents or in structured activities (home schooling) or just with kids their own age and structured activities (traditional schooling), they had the chance to learn from unstructured social interactions with everyone from infants to adults. I think the concept of nuclear families is pretty unnatural, but so is a society stratified by age. Add to that that most teenagers aren't doing anything that matters and you get the frustrated, pointless bickering of high school. I don't think structured activities combined with opting out are a good substitute, but it is possible to provide teenagers with meaningful work, personal agency and the time and opportunity for unstructured social interactions. The problem is that that requires giving up a lot of control over children (and the myth of "child" as vastly different than everyone else), and almost no parents I've met are willing to do so. They're happy to drive to 1001 piano lessons and organized play dates and craft projects, but not to let their kid go take off through the neighborhood on their own. They don't want their 14 year old to be forced to sit in class, but want to know where the kid is at all times and make sure there is always a trusted adult present. Kids are supposed to fear strangers, not interact with them. They need to be taught, not discover things for themselves (especially if what they discover is different than what you believe!) There has to be a better way to keep adults from exploiting teenagers than locking teenagers away, but we haven't apparently found it yet. Everyone wants to shelter, protect and control teenagers. If we take that as a given, at least high school gives kids the advantage of numbers over adults and the chance to learn from one another on the fringes. It doesn't mean it is ideal, but I do think it is better than telling kids they don't need to interact with the world.

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fusiongyro 14y ago

> I was homeschooled and it was terrible. I didn't learn the 101 little tricks to make interacting with frustrating people that little bit easier, I didn't learn to empathize with people less smart than me and I didn't develop the social intelligence that I believe is vital for long-term success. See, I went to a public school and didn't learn that stuff either. Bonus, I got beat up routinely until high school.

mike_esspe 14y ago
I didn't learn it in school too, and though i wasn't bullied, i would not send kids to school. I think this is a problem of introversion, not of homeschooling.

lutorm 14y ago

I was not home schooled (I'm not sure such a thing exists in Sweden) but before I started school, my grandparents took care of me while my parents went to work, so I didn't go to daycare or anything like that. Even these days into middle age I'm clearly more "socially challenged" than most people. I remember school being quite a shock to me, and I do think that it would have been useful to be exposed to more kids at a young age. So I guess what I'm feeling is that school isn't just for learning stuff, it's for learning to live in a world that's full of people, most very different from you, and where knowing how to interact easily with them probably is just as important as learning any particular "school stuff". Against this background, I'm fundamentally skeptic that the concept of home schooling really would be an overall positive in someone's life.

roguecoder 14y ago
I should add a disclaimer to my condemnation: I have seen some kids who did well "home schooled", but they were what Americans call "unschoolers" where the parents didn't teach them at all and instead they are expected to be out in the world learning through social interactions with non-family. Most of them found real work to do, had fun playing with kids their own age in the area, helped care for younger kids and learned about different topics they ran across. They picked up responsibility and deadlines through real work, and research through being interested in things. Around high school they'd often take some classes at high schools or community colleges, but instead of being less socialized than the other kids there they were more socialized and were already used to having to interact with other kids in unstructured environments. Instead of spending time with their parents or in structured activities (home schooling) or just with kids their own age and structured activities (traditional schooling), they had the chance to learn from unstructured social interactions with everyone from infants to adults. I think the concept of nuclear families is pretty unnatural, but so is a society stratified by age. Add to that that most teenagers aren't doing anything that matters and you get the frustrated, pointless bickering of high school. I don't think structured activities combined with opting out are a good substitute, but it is possible to provide teenagers with meaningful work, personal agency and the time and opportunity for unstructured social interactions. The problem is that that requires giving up a lot of control over children (and the myth of "child" as vastly different than everyone else), and almost no parents I've met are willing to do so. They're happy to drive to 1001 piano lessons and organized play dates and craft projects, but not to let their kid go take off through the neighborhood on their own. They don't want their 14 year old to be forced to sit in class, but want to know where the kid is at all times and make sure there is always a trusted adult present. Kids are supposed to fear strangers, not interact with them. They need to be taught, not discover things for themselves (especially if what they discover is different than what you believe!) There has to be a better way to keep adults from exploiting teenagers than locking teenagers away, but we haven't apparently found it yet. Everyone wants to shelter, protect and control teenagers. If we take that as a given, at least high school gives kids the advantage of numbers over adults and the chance to learn from one another on the fringes. It doesn't mean it is ideal, but I do think it is better than telling kids they don't need to interact with the world.