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I had hopes for this video, but he didn't really go in-depth on the serious/successful reform projects. We're all literate here. But very few of us can sight-s
by vintermann 3y ago
I had hopes for this video, but he didn't really go in-depth on the serious/successful reform projects.
We're all literate here. But very few of us can sight-sing. Attempts to teach musical literacy like reading literacy on a mass scale have failed.
Or have they? Some efforts have done much better than others. I looked into a guy called Lars Roverud, crediting with reforming church singing in Norway in the 19th century. His system was a simple one based on numbers, very similar to the Chinese one briefly touched on in Tantacrul's video. It worked really well.
Then there's the American shape note tradition. I'd say that's an impressive success: regular churchgoers, not just an especially talented choir, actually learn to sight-sing three and four-part harmony. They don't just learn the melodies by heart, they can actually flip to a new song and sing it. They rely on a partially symbolic system, and on harmonization conventions.
There are actually a lot of didactic music success stories, and what virtually all of them have in common is a symbolic system for pitch/harmony.
But what those systems also have in common, is that most of the benefit to literacy is gone a generation after someone says, "how great! now you should advance to real music notation!"
- Kwpolska 3y agoHave there been serious attempts to widely teach musical literacy?
- jedrek 3y agoI didn't have it in the US in the 1980s, and my wife didn't have it in Poland in the 1980s/1990s either.
- vintermann 3y agoHow do you define it, then? You never had recorder lessons in elementary school?
- Kwpolska 3y agoDo recorder lessons involve any music theory? Do they include learning notation? Or just blindly making different sounds, or learning just the specific ways to manipulate an instrument?
- vintermann 3y agoSo you really didn't have it, then? To answer: Yes, they included learning notation, in fact that was the point. And they included learning music theory in the same sense learning spelling to first graders includes grammar. Just because it's not explicitly described in terms from the theoretical model, doesn't mean it's not there. They did however firmly link music note to finger positions, and I think that's a big part of why they failed in promoting universal musical literacy (even though professional musicians too typically sight read that way).
- sp332 3y agoIt's 90% notation.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- sanderjd 3y agoYou didn't learn musical notation in school in the US in the 80s? I started kindergarten in '91 and we did a bit on this every year started in 1st grade I think. But not enough to become truly literate I'd say. But still, it was definitely part of the curriculum.
- michaelcampbell 3y ago> You didn't learn musical notation in school in the US in the 80s? I was in grade school in the 70's, but I certainly did not. We had "music" class, which was mostly learning songs to sing and basic instruments, but those were more a "put finger here, then here, then here" type of thing. From 4'th grade+ we had optional band (which I was in), so I learned some there. But not part of a standard curriculum.
- sanderjd 3y agoIntriguing! At least where I lived, they must have changed that by the 90s. I wonder if they are still doing that curriculum now or if it has reverted.
- terramex 3y agoI did have "Music" as school subject in both primary and middle school in Poland in 90s/00s. Cannot sight read but I can transcribe music sheet onto piano roll in DAW with some patience due to those lessons.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- mastazi 3y agoEdit: I have misread the title of the thread and assumed that a different video was linked by OP. My original comment was a link to the same video that OP is linking to, so I have removed it. PS I had initially assumed that OP was linking to Adam Neely's latest video, "Should sheet music be required for music school?" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51P4-YQACvU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51P4-YQACvU
- NoxiousPluK 3y agoThis is the video this post is linking to.
- vintermann 3y agoYes. I admit, I watched it when it first came out, I didn't rewatch it when it was posted here, but from what I recall he spent way more time deriding utopian reformers than on the serious efforts/actual different systems in use (though he did at least admit they existed).
- mastazi 3y agoThanks, I edited my comment. I initially thought that OP's link was to Adam Neely's latest video which is on a similar topic.
- hug 3y agoEveryone can sight sing to a (relatively harmonious) degree: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ne6tB2KiZuk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ne6tB2KiZuk
- layer8 3y agoMaybe if Harry Potter came out in music notation, it would work.