2 ms·

I don't think quotes are used for German reunification or Korean reunification. So why are they for Chinese reunification?

wkat4242 3y ago
Already explained that here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38838337 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38838337 Not to mention that in the case of Germany and Korea both parts are similar in size. And the conditions for the worst off-people improves (or improved in the case of Germany) considerably. In the case of Taiwan their population's freedom will be reduced and for the people in China there will be no change. It's not reunification, it's forced subordination. And reunification isn't always a good thing. For example look at Ukraine, they have no interest in 'reunification' with Russia. Another big example where those quotes would be justified. Because they'd be transformed from a proud independent country to a crumple zone for Russia. Or Yugoslavia. Bringing all those different populations together in one country again is a guarantee for another war.
- mytailorisrich 3y ago
  Not at all... this is all irrelevant or unrelated. Nobody argued that German reunification was indeed a reunification. With China there is a narrative that tries to convey that thie situation is different and that this is not really a reunification... which is obviously not the reality.
  - wkat4242 3y ago
    But it is different for the reasons I mentioned. It's a very unbalanced 'reunification' due to the size difference in both parties which will pretty much bring Taiwan under CCP control without any shared input. That's not a unification where both parties benefit. Hong Kong shows this very well. Also, it's not really a "re" unification either because Taiwan has never been under CCP control. Before that Chinese rule goes back to the 1890s but it always had its own indigenous people and customs.
    - mytailorisrich 3y ago
      Relative sizes are irrelevant to whether an amalgamation of territories constitutes a reunification. > it's not really a "re" unification either because Taiwan has never been under CCP control This is the usual argument, which is obviously bogus. The Democratic Republic of Germany was never under the control of the Federal Republic of Germany before the reunification, this is irrelevant. > Before that Chinese rule goes back to the 1890s but it always had its own indigenous people and customs. Chinese rule dates further back (Taiwan was formally annexed in 1684). Local people and customs are also irrelevant here as indeed Taiwan had been absorbed into the Chinese Empire and then the Republic of China (which, formally it still is). Hence my point that all of this is manipulation of Western public opinion because, no matter what (including the mainland becoming a democracy), the interest of the US is to keep Taiwan split from mainland China.
      - wkat4242 3y ago
        It's not really irrelevant that only China wants this. The people of Taiwan don't want their freedoms taken away. I've been there and the fear is pretty strong. Especially after seeing what came of Hong Kong's promises of "One Country, Two Systems". I think that it goes against the wishes of the population is a big point against calling it a reunification. The only reason they don't want to declare independence is that they're afraid it will provoke the CCP into a military response. This is where the wishy-washy stance comes from. Not from uncertainty of what they want. But if it happens it will be against the wishes of the Taiwanese people. If the mainland would become a democracy I could see this happen, though trust would have to be built up over decades. > The Democratic Republic of Germany was never under the control of the Federal Republic of Germany before the reunification, this is irrelevant. No but because of this the west had no legitimate claim to the east. The people of the east wanted to be included. This is why it happened, as it should. There was a clear mutual benefit and wish to do it. In the case of Taiwan it's just about the CCP wishing to take its ancient enemy out of the game, even though it no longer poses any threat at all.
        mytailorisrich 3y ago

wkat4242 3y ago

Already explained that here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38838337 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38838337 Not to mention that in the case of Germany and Korea both parts are similar in size. And the conditions for the worst off-people improves (or improved in the case of Germany) considerably. In the case of Taiwan their population's freedom will be reduced and for the people in China there will be no change. It's not reunification, it's forced subordination. And reunification isn't always a good thing. For example look at Ukraine, they have no interest in 'reunification' with Russia. Another big example where those quotes would be justified. Because they'd be transformed from a proud independent country to a crumple zone for Russia. Or Yugoslavia. Bringing all those different populations together in one country again is a guarantee for another war.

mytailorisrich 3y ago
Not at all... this is all irrelevant or unrelated. Nobody argued that German reunification was indeed a reunification. With China there is a narrative that tries to convey that thie situation is different and that this is not really a reunification... which is obviously not the reality.
- wkat4242 3y ago
  But it is different for the reasons I mentioned. It's a very unbalanced 'reunification' due to the size difference in both parties which will pretty much bring Taiwan under CCP control without any shared input. That's not a unification where both parties benefit. Hong Kong shows this very well. Also, it's not really a "re" unification either because Taiwan has never been under CCP control. Before that Chinese rule goes back to the 1890s but it always had its own indigenous people and customs.
  - mytailorisrich 3y ago
    Relative sizes are irrelevant to whether an amalgamation of territories constitutes a reunification. > it's not really a "re" unification either because Taiwan has never been under CCP control This is the usual argument, which is obviously bogus. The Democratic Republic of Germany was never under the control of the Federal Republic of Germany before the reunification, this is irrelevant. > Before that Chinese rule goes back to the 1890s but it always had its own indigenous people and customs. Chinese rule dates further back (Taiwan was formally annexed in 1684). Local people and customs are also irrelevant here as indeed Taiwan had been absorbed into the Chinese Empire and then the Republic of China (which, formally it still is). Hence my point that all of this is manipulation of Western public opinion because, no matter what (including the mainland becoming a democracy), the interest of the US is to keep Taiwan split from mainland China.
    - wkat4242 3y ago
      It's not really irrelevant that only China wants this. The people of Taiwan don't want their freedoms taken away. I've been there and the fear is pretty strong. Especially after seeing what came of Hong Kong's promises of "One Country, Two Systems". I think that it goes against the wishes of the population is a big point against calling it a reunification. The only reason they don't want to declare independence is that they're afraid it will provoke the CCP into a military response. This is where the wishy-washy stance comes from. Not from uncertainty of what they want. But if it happens it will be against the wishes of the Taiwanese people. If the mainland would become a democracy I could see this happen, though trust would have to be built up over decades. > The Democratic Republic of Germany was never under the control of the Federal Republic of Germany before the reunification, this is irrelevant. No but because of this the west had no legitimate claim to the east. The people of the east wanted to be included. This is why it happened, as it should. There was a clear mutual benefit and wish to do it. In the case of Taiwan it's just about the CCP wishing to take its ancient enemy out of the game, even though it no longer poses any threat at all.
      - mytailorisrich 3y ago