8 ms·

Is there a list/comparison of C-Alternative systems programming languages available ?

lerno 3y ago
If you aren’t looking for languages that have more fancy memory management things (ref counting, borrowing or similar) then the active ones I know of are in alphabetical order: C3, Hare, Jai (might be slightly more of a C++ alternative), Odin and Zig. Additionally: Hare stated Win and Mac will be unsupported. Jai is still closed source.
frfl 3y ago
I don't know about a list online but here's what I know off, in the C/C++ realm Odin - https://odin-lang.org/ https://odin-lang.org/ Zig - https://ziglang.org/ https://ziglang.org/ Beef - https://www.beeflang.org/ https://www.beeflang.org/ Jai (not public yet) - [1] Carbon (C++) - https://github.com/carbon-language/carbon-lang https://github.com/carbon-language/carbon-lang D Lang - https://dlang.org/ https://dlang.org/ Rust - https://www.rust-lang.org/ https://www.rust-lang.org/ cppfront (Herb Sutter's C++ frontend/syntax) - https://github.com/hsutter/cppfront https://github.com/hsutter/cppfront Nim - https://nim-lang.org/ https://nim-lang.org/ Crystal (not sure if this counts) - https://crystal-lang.org/ https://crystal-lang.org/ Vale - https://vale.dev/ https://vale.dev/ Hylo (formerly Val, just found it now) - https://www.hylo-lang.org/ https://www.hylo-lang.org/ Vala (compiles to C, some GTK apps are written in this) - https://vala.dev/ https://vala.dev/ C3 - https://github.com/c3lang/c3c https://github.com/c3lang/c3c Rune (last commit 7 months ago) - https://github.com/google/rune https://github.com/google/rune Kit (dead, last commit 5 years ago) - https://github.com/kitlang/kit https://github.com/kitlang/kit There's probably more. That's all I can recall off the top of my head and/or what I have in my notes. There's also Haskell [2], which compiles down to C-- [3] (a C like language). Not sure if this counts either. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Blow#2017%E2%80%93present:_Jai_programming_language,_untitled_Sokoban_game,_and_Braid,_Anniversary_Edition https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Blow#2017%E2%80%93pre... [2]: https://www.haskell.org/ https://www.haskell.org/ [3]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C-- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C--
- jimbob45 3y ago
  Carbon is really exhibit A of why MVPs exist. Jai and Cppfront have the same problem but Blow and Sutter probably don’t care if they never gain much traction. Conversely, Carbon is Google-backed (IIRC) and will soon die if it can’t justify its continued existence.
  - pjmlp 3y ago
    Carbon has been explicilty announced as an experiement by Google for Google, as means to transition their own C++ code. Chandler Carruth is on the record stating it doesn't matter if it eventually dies, it is an experiement, where they hope to learn something out of it. For some strange reason people keep giving more value to Carbon, than its own design team.
  - xhevahir 3y ago
    Carbon is Facebook.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - steveklabnik 3y ago
      Carbon was started by Chandler Carruth, at Google, but they wanted to move it to broader governance quickly. It's not under the Google GitHub today, but its own org. https://github.com/carbon-language/carbon-lang/blob/trunk/docs/project/evolution.md#governance-structure https://github.com/carbon-language/carbon-lang/blob/trunk/do... And Meta is pretty clearly committed to Rust at this point.
  - frfl 3y ago
    I can't comment on Herb Sutter. But Jonathan Blow, from what I've seen and heard, is deeply passionate about the domain Jai is targeting and appears to have Jai already in pre-production use in his next in-development game/engine. I agree about the MVP stuff; in contrast to things like Zig, Jai is the completely opposite, it's being built behind closed doors with little to no community feedback, with the creator and inner circle have say in the direction. I'm not sure how well it will pan out. Seems like, from the outside, Blow is scratching his own itch and maybe it's possible Jai will never take off. The only real world similar example is Elm, which while open source, is/(was?) also heavily design behind closed doors in many ways, albeit not to the degree to which Jai is. There's also Mojo, the Python-like language. It's also being built behind closed doors, but it seems to have a lot of hype behind it already.
massifist 3y ago
There's also Hare [https://harelang.org https://harelang.org] which I see mentioned on (rare) occasion. I think it uses a different backend than LLVM.
- throwaway17_17 3y ago
  I like what Hare sets out to do, and I like how it is going so far. But in terms of a C alternative it doesn’t really fit the bill. Hare is explicitly not supported on anything but open source platforms and that is a big divergence from C in 2023. I do not doubt there will be a Windows compiler at some point, but the language’s goals are never going to mesh with a large chunk of C usecases.
- steveklabnik 3y ago
  > I think it uses a different backend than LLVM harec uses https://c9x.me/compile/ https://c9x.me/compile/
petabyt 3y ago
I made this list a while ago: C++ Go Rust Odin D Carbon Zig Beef C2/C3/C4 Ring Jiyu Hare V OCaml Crystal Nim Maybe Haskell? Terra Red Nelua
- fuzztester 3y ago
  Having tried out Rebol some, earlier, and liked it a bit, I was quite interested in Red, until they went the crypto way for fundraising :( Their two-layer design with Red/System (IIRC) and Red, was interesting too.

If you aren’t looking for languages that have more fancy memory management things (ref counting, borrowing or similar) then the active ones I know of are in alphabetical order: C3, Hare, Jai (might be slightly more of a C++ alternative), Odin and Zig. Additionally: Hare stated Win and Mac will be unsupported. Jai is still closed source.

frfl 3y ago

I don't know about a list online but here's what I know off, in the C/C++ realm Odin - https://odin-lang.org/ https://odin-lang.org/ Zig - https://ziglang.org/ https://ziglang.org/ Beef - https://www.beeflang.org/ https://www.beeflang.org/ Jai (not public yet) - [1] Carbon (C++) - https://github.com/carbon-language/carbon-lang https://github.com/carbon-language/carbon-lang D Lang - https://dlang.org/ https://dlang.org/ Rust - https://www.rust-lang.org/ https://www.rust-lang.org/ cppfront (Herb Sutter's C++ frontend/syntax) - https://github.com/hsutter/cppfront https://github.com/hsutter/cppfront Nim - https://nim-lang.org/ https://nim-lang.org/ Crystal (not sure if this counts) - https://crystal-lang.org/ https://crystal-lang.org/ Vale - https://vale.dev/ https://vale.dev/ Hylo (formerly Val, just found it now) - https://www.hylo-lang.org/ https://www.hylo-lang.org/ Vala (compiles to C, some GTK apps are written in this) - https://vala.dev/ https://vala.dev/ C3 - https://github.com/c3lang/c3c https://github.com/c3lang/c3c Rune (last commit 7 months ago) - https://github.com/google/rune https://github.com/google/rune Kit (dead, last commit 5 years ago) - https://github.com/kitlang/kit https://github.com/kitlang/kit There's probably more. That's all I can recall off the top of my head and/or what I have in my notes. There's also Haskell [2], which compiles down to C-- [3] (a C like language). Not sure if this counts either. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Blow#2017%E2%80%93present:_Jai_programming_language,_untitled_Sokoban_game,_and_Braid,_Anniversary_Edition https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Blow#2017%E2%80%93pre... [2]: https://www.haskell.org/ https://www.haskell.org/ [3]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C-- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C--

jimbob45 3y ago
Carbon is really exhibit A of why MVPs exist. Jai and Cppfront have the same problem but Blow and Sutter probably don’t care if they never gain much traction. Conversely, Carbon is Google-backed (IIRC) and will soon die if it can’t justify its continued existence.
- pjmlp 3y ago
  Carbon has been explicilty announced as an experiement by Google for Google, as means to transition their own C++ code. Chandler Carruth is on the record stating it doesn't matter if it eventually dies, it is an experiement, where they hope to learn something out of it. For some strange reason people keep giving more value to Carbon, than its own design team.
- xhevahir 3y ago
  Carbon is Facebook.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - steveklabnik 3y ago
    Carbon was started by Chandler Carruth, at Google, but they wanted to move it to broader governance quickly. It's not under the Google GitHub today, but its own org. https://github.com/carbon-language/carbon-lang/blob/trunk/docs/project/evolution.md#governance-structure https://github.com/carbon-language/carbon-lang/blob/trunk/do... And Meta is pretty clearly committed to Rust at this point.
- frfl 3y ago
  I can't comment on Herb Sutter. But Jonathan Blow, from what I've seen and heard, is deeply passionate about the domain Jai is targeting and appears to have Jai already in pre-production use in his next in-development game/engine. I agree about the MVP stuff; in contrast to things like Zig, Jai is the completely opposite, it's being built behind closed doors with little to no community feedback, with the creator and inner circle have say in the direction. I'm not sure how well it will pan out. Seems like, from the outside, Blow is scratching his own itch and maybe it's possible Jai will never take off. The only real world similar example is Elm, which while open source, is/(was?) also heavily design behind closed doors in many ways, albeit not to the degree to which Jai is. There's also Mojo, the Python-like language. It's also being built behind closed doors, but it seems to have a lot of hype behind it already.

massifist 3y ago

There's also Hare [https://harelang.org https://harelang.org] which I see mentioned on (rare) occasion. I think it uses a different backend than LLVM.

throwaway17_17 3y ago
I like what Hare sets out to do, and I like how it is going so far. But in terms of a C alternative it doesn’t really fit the bill. Hare is explicitly not supported on anything but open source platforms and that is a big divergence from C in 2023. I do not doubt there will be a Windows compiler at some point, but the language’s goals are never going to mesh with a large chunk of C usecases.
steveklabnik 3y ago
> I think it uses a different backend than LLVM harec uses https://c9x.me/compile/ https://c9x.me/compile/

petabyt 3y ago

I made this list a while ago: C++ Go Rust Odin D Carbon Zig Beef C2/C3/C4 Ring Jiyu Hare V OCaml Crystal Nim Maybe Haskell? Terra Red Nelua

fuzztester 3y ago
Having tried out Rebol some, earlier, and liked it a bit, I was quite interested in Red, until they went the crypto way for fundraising :( Their two-layer design with Red/System (IIRC) and Red, was interesting too.