3 ms·

Energy density is the issue. Gasoline has amazing energy density out of the box. Getting batteries anywhere near that may be impossible. Battery applications a

by fwungy 3y ago

Energy density is the issue. Gasoline has amazing energy density out of the box. Getting batteries anywhere near that may be impossible. Battery applications are critical. Tons of money has been spent on research. If there was something revolutionary to discover it's likely it would have happened. 100 mile EV town cars would be great, they'd be much less money than the long range EVs and target air pollution in the places that need it most. Trying to make EVs take over for ICEs via policy mandate is just insanity.

bluGill 3y ago
The proplem with the 100 mile ev is most people have the 1% trips they don't work for. extra cars are expensive so you are better off with one that does it all instead of trying to figure out those exceptional trips. i've tried to rent cars and been turned away because they were out. I've tried to rent but discoverd I wasn't allowed to do what I want (rocks are hard on trucks so I don't blame them, but it means I have to own for those weird things)
- theshrike79 3y ago
  I did the math (kinda). I save so much on the 99% of drives when driving with electricity vs gasoline so I can just rent a car for the or fly/go by train and get a taxi in my destination.
  - bluGill 3y ago
    I've done the math myself, and it never works out to fly/take the train. Of course part of this is I have a family. I'm buying 5 plane/train tickets - and always in the busy/expensive time when everyone else is also off school and trying to travel. I'm not renting a small car - my family won't even fit - but a minivan (if you can find one). Sure I'm spending 4-5 days driving, but that is a substantial cost savings.
- MostlyStable 3y ago
  depending on how much cheaper a 100 mile range EV was, I might be willing to consider it and then rent an ICE vehicle for the few times a year I needed extra range. I am considering that option anyways since, while my current EV is fine for long (10+ hour) drives, it is potentially too small for when I have a second kid + dogs. While I'm hoping that a roof rack will make the vehicle still work (hopefully the range hit won't be too big), if it doesn't work, renting a car a few times a year is more than offset by my fuel savings the rest of the time. Had a 100 mile range EV been available at a significant cost savings, I might have done that and started renting now for range reasons rather than space reasons.
  - bluGill 3y ago
    Batteries are expensive though, so it is unlikely. Or to put it differently, how many people with a large SUV also have a tiny car? back in 2006 I did the math and concluded you would need to drive double the natioal average to make the numbers work, gas is cheaper now and cars cost much more. (but used cars should be cheaper)
    - MostlyStable 3y ago
      I'm a little confused by your comment. Yes, batteries are expensive, therefore a shorter range EV should have a cheaper price than a longer range one, because you are removing expensive battery. I think there might have bee some confusion. I meant "cheaper than an EV with the usual 250ish mile range", not cheaper than an ICE vehicle. I bought an EV last year. It was more expensive up front than a comparable ICE vehicle, but the loan payments + charging costs were actually cheaper than the loan payments + fuel costs would have been. With my vehicle, I may, in the future, have to rent a larger ICE vehicle on rare occasions. This was a possibility I considered before I purchased the vehicle and decided I was fine with it, since my monthly fuel savings will more than offset this cost. I was suggesting that, for a sufficient discount, I would have bought an EV with less range and started renting a vehicle now, instead of potentially in the future.
      - bluGill 3y ago
- PaulHoule 3y ago
  If gas wasn't there people would have settled for electric cars with the range they had and taken the train (maybe even a land ferry) if they needed to go further.
- selcuka 3y ago
  > extra cars are expensive so you are better off with one that does it all instead of trying to figure out those exceptional trips. Or the town cars can be designed to take an extra battery that you can easily rent (preferably from a charging station) when needed.
palemoonale 3y ago
Energy density is one major fact the EV propagandists don't get. What they get is policies and mandates to work for their cause.
- Toutouxc 3y ago
  The fact that gasoline is significantly more energy dense than batteries is so easy to grasp that a monkey could probably understand it. Do you honestly believe that this is the missing piece that EV fans don’t get? That teaching them 6th grade physics will make the whole thing go away?

by fwungy 3y ago

bluGill 3y ago

The proplem with the 100 mile ev is most people have the 1% trips they don't work for. extra cars are expensive so you are better off with one that does it all instead of trying to figure out those exceptional trips. i've tried to rent cars and been turned away because they were out. I've tried to rent but discoverd I wasn't allowed to do what I want (rocks are hard on trucks so I don't blame them, but it means I have to own for those weird things)

theshrike79 3y ago
I did the math (kinda). I save so much on the 99% of drives when driving with electricity vs gasoline so I can just rent a car for the or fly/go by train and get a taxi in my destination.
- bluGill 3y ago
  I've done the math myself, and it never works out to fly/take the train. Of course part of this is I have a family. I'm buying 5 plane/train tickets - and always in the busy/expensive time when everyone else is also off school and trying to travel. I'm not renting a small car - my family won't even fit - but a minivan (if you can find one). Sure I'm spending 4-5 days driving, but that is a substantial cost savings.
MostlyStable 3y ago
depending on how much cheaper a 100 mile range EV was, I might be willing to consider it and then rent an ICE vehicle for the few times a year I needed extra range. I am considering that option anyways since, while my current EV is fine for long (10+ hour) drives, it is potentially too small for when I have a second kid + dogs. While I'm hoping that a roof rack will make the vehicle still work (hopefully the range hit won't be too big), if it doesn't work, renting a car a few times a year is more than offset by my fuel savings the rest of the time. Had a 100 mile range EV been available at a significant cost savings, I might have done that and started renting now for range reasons rather than space reasons.
- bluGill 3y ago
  Batteries are expensive though, so it is unlikely. Or to put it differently, how many people with a large SUV also have a tiny car? back in 2006 I did the math and concluded you would need to drive double the natioal average to make the numbers work, gas is cheaper now and cars cost much more. (but used cars should be cheaper)
  - MostlyStable 3y ago
    I'm a little confused by your comment. Yes, batteries are expensive, therefore a shorter range EV should have a cheaper price than a longer range one, because you are removing expensive battery. I think there might have bee some confusion. I meant "cheaper than an EV with the usual 250ish mile range", not cheaper than an ICE vehicle. I bought an EV last year. It was more expensive up front than a comparable ICE vehicle, but the loan payments + charging costs were actually cheaper than the loan payments + fuel costs would have been. With my vehicle, I may, in the future, have to rent a larger ICE vehicle on rare occasions. This was a possibility I considered before I purchased the vehicle and decided I was fine with it, since my monthly fuel savings will more than offset this cost. I was suggesting that, for a sufficient discount, I would have bought an EV with less range and started renting a vehicle now, instead of potentially in the future.
    - bluGill 3y ago
PaulHoule 3y ago
If gas wasn't there people would have settled for electric cars with the range they had and taken the train (maybe even a land ferry) if they needed to go further.
selcuka 3y ago
> extra cars are expensive so you are better off with one that does it all instead of trying to figure out those exceptional trips. Or the town cars can be designed to take an extra battery that you can easily rent (preferably from a charging station) when needed.

palemoonale 3y ago

Energy density is one major fact the EV propagandists don't get. What they get is policies and mandates to work for their cause.

Toutouxc 3y ago
The fact that gasoline is significantly more energy dense than batteries is so easy to grasp that a monkey could probably understand it. Do you honestly believe that this is the missing piece that EV fans don’t get? That teaching them 6th grade physics will make the whole thing go away?