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It's actually quite convenient for the US that China is moving back towards an inefficient state controlled economy. This will slow down China's growth and mak

It's actually quite convenient for the US that China is moving back towards an inefficient state controlled economy. This will slow down China's growth and make them much less of a threat. Sometimes I wonder if this is an own-goal or whether the US uses other means to trick China into behaving stupidly.

AtlasBarfed 3y ago
[flagged]
- croes 3y ago
  >Economic regression and forthcoming demographic collapse Isn't the same happening in the west?
  - AtlasBarfed 3y ago
    Not with immigration. For all the right wing handwringing, immigration is a boon in the long run.
  - jdewerd 3y ago
    Not nearly as quickly. Where we had millenials -- the echo of the baby boom -- they had the One Child Policy. That difference is now entering prime earning/spending years.
  - Duya-Taksis 3y ago
    [flagged]
- Duya-Taksis 3y ago
  Would you please stop with this stupidity? Enough. It seriously hurts my brain that every bit of discussion about China devolves into someone regurgitating these thoroughly incorrect, stupid cliches. China's population is more than 4x America's. If a billion people vanished from China, it would still be more populous than America. America is the one with the demographic problem, not China. China has at least 20 years of urbanization left, with people moving from unproductive agrarian work into the cities. Furthermore, the government has plenty of policy space to implement pro-natal programs. Before you even think it - no, they work. Coordinated, consistent pro-natal policy can and does routinely lift birth rates. China is rocketing up the value chain on every single metric. It just installed more industrial robots this year than the rest of the world combined. Investment , both state and private, is pouring into renewable energy, EVs, semiconductors, advanced manufacturing, biotech, aerospace, etc. China's government, for whatever problems it has, is simply the most effective on competent ever devised. It outclasses every other government on Earth, it isn't even close. You and your fellow Americans need to open your eyes and understand your diminished and ever-diminishing place in the world.
  - dang 3y ago
    Could you please not post in the flamewar style to HN? You've been doing it repeatedly in this thread, unfortunately. It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for. I realize that it's frustrating to be representing a minority view, but it's not ok to react to that pressure by lashing out at others or breaking the rules here. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.
- dang 3y ago
  Please don't post flamebait to HN. It leads to flamewars, which we we're trying to avoid here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - AtlasBarfed 3y ago
    What? Is this an AI fail? China is authoritarian. Fact China is facing demographic shift / collapse. Fact. Xi is consolidating power is a fact.
    - pvg 3y ago
      https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&query=by%3Adang%20infinitely%20many%20facts&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu...
      - AtlasBarfed 3y ago
        Got it. Don't talk about China. Censorship warning noted.
        pvg 3y ago
        You're being a bombastic doofus online, a regular mishap that can happen to anyone. It's still just a mishap, not some heroic battle of truthsayers vs censorship.
riffraff 3y ago
Milton Friedman thought that a free market was incompatible with a totalitarian state, so once the economy gets freed some sort of liberal government would follow. Perhaps Xi is the CCP immune reaction to the risk that a freer economy would lead to a freer state.
- pipes 3y ago
  Hrm... In a YouTube video I'm pretty sure he says that free states can't exist without capitalism but that doesn't mean unfree states can't be capitalist too. In fact this was in response to an audience member claiming he said what you are roughly saying.
webdoodle 3y ago
Ma's downfall came shortly after Putin suggested that he run for president of China. Coupled with his association with Peter Thiel, Xi decided to reign him in before he could do any real damage.
ridiculous_leke 3y ago
[flagged]
- Duya-Taksis 3y ago
  [flagged]
jdewerd 3y ago
> moving back towards an inefficient state controlled economy Didn't the Soviets go from agrarian to superpower and give the US a merry chase before collapsing? This might be a long arc. > slow down China's growth and make them much less of a threat. If I was a dictator and the population was starting to get upset over stalled growth, starting a war would seem to be a great way to generate excuses for economic hardship and crackdowns. Oh, and it would give the factories something to do other than get undercut by Vietnam. War sounds like the answer to all of my problems. I think this situation makes me more of a threat, don't you? > trick China into behaving stupidly Remember, they just acquired the world's industrial base. With our encouragement, because we thought it would turn them into a liberal democracy. It, uhhh, didn't. So did we really trick them? Or did we sell them the rope with which they will hang us (to paraphrase the Lenin quote)?
- edgyquant 3y ago
  No, the “war as a distraction thing” is an over repeated trope with little nuance or bearing on reality. War doesn’t distract but puts all eyes on you and losing one (which is always a risk) is a sure fire way to lose any power you were looking to keep via distraction anyway. Societies go to war when they think they can win and achieve political aims. Any distraction is an excuse to do something they were likely to do anyway.
  - jdewerd 3y ago
    > over repeated trope with little nuance Says the guy whose entire argument is "war is risky." Well, yeah -- and a ruler weighs that risk against the risk of losing legitimacy and power due to a stalling economy. This story has repeated many times in history. That's why it's a "trope." > political aims. Any distraction is an excuse to do something they were likely to do anyway. You don't have to read between the lines on Taiwan, you can simply read the lines.
    - Duya-Taksis 3y ago
      [flagged]

AtlasBarfed 3y ago

[flagged]

croes 3y ago
>Economic regression and forthcoming demographic collapse Isn't the same happening in the west?
- AtlasBarfed 3y ago
  Not with immigration. For all the right wing handwringing, immigration is a boon in the long run.
- jdewerd 3y ago
  Not nearly as quickly. Where we had millenials -- the echo of the baby boom -- they had the One Child Policy. That difference is now entering prime earning/spending years.
- Duya-Taksis 3y ago
  [flagged]
Duya-Taksis 3y ago
Would you please stop with this stupidity? Enough. It seriously hurts my brain that every bit of discussion about China devolves into someone regurgitating these thoroughly incorrect, stupid cliches. China's population is more than 4x America's. If a billion people vanished from China, it would still be more populous than America. America is the one with the demographic problem, not China. China has at least 20 years of urbanization left, with people moving from unproductive agrarian work into the cities. Furthermore, the government has plenty of policy space to implement pro-natal programs. Before you even think it - no, they work. Coordinated, consistent pro-natal policy can and does routinely lift birth rates. China is rocketing up the value chain on every single metric. It just installed more industrial robots this year than the rest of the world combined. Investment , both state and private, is pouring into renewable energy, EVs, semiconductors, advanced manufacturing, biotech, aerospace, etc. China's government, for whatever problems it has, is simply the most effective on competent ever devised. It outclasses every other government on Earth, it isn't even close. You and your fellow Americans need to open your eyes and understand your diminished and ever-diminishing place in the world.
- dang 3y ago
  Could you please not post in the flamewar style to HN? You've been doing it repeatedly in this thread, unfortunately. It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for. I realize that it's frustrating to be representing a minority view, but it's not ok to react to that pressure by lashing out at others or breaking the rules here. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.
dang 3y ago
Please don't post flamebait to HN. It leads to flamewars, which we we're trying to avoid here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- AtlasBarfed 3y ago
  What? Is this an AI fail? China is authoritarian. Fact China is facing demographic shift / collapse. Fact. Xi is consolidating power is a fact.
  - pvg 3y ago
    https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&query=by%3Adang%20infinitely%20many%20facts&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu...
    - AtlasBarfed 3y ago
      Got it. Don't talk about China. Censorship warning noted.
      - pvg 3y ago
        You're being a bombastic doofus online, a regular mishap that can happen to anyone. It's still just a mishap, not some heroic battle of truthsayers vs censorship.

riffraff 3y ago

Milton Friedman thought that a free market was incompatible with a totalitarian state, so once the economy gets freed some sort of liberal government would follow. Perhaps Xi is the CCP immune reaction to the risk that a freer economy would lead to a freer state.

pipes 3y ago
Hrm... In a YouTube video I'm pretty sure he says that free states can't exist without capitalism but that doesn't mean unfree states can't be capitalist too. In fact this was in response to an audience member claiming he said what you are roughly saying.

webdoodle 3y ago

Ma's downfall came shortly after Putin suggested that he run for president of China. Coupled with his association with Peter Thiel, Xi decided to reign him in before he could do any real damage.

ridiculous_leke 3y ago

[flagged]

Duya-Taksis 3y ago
[flagged]

jdewerd 3y ago

> moving back towards an inefficient state controlled economy Didn't the Soviets go from agrarian to superpower and give the US a merry chase before collapsing? This might be a long arc. > slow down China's growth and make them much less of a threat. If I was a dictator and the population was starting to get upset over stalled growth, starting a war would seem to be a great way to generate excuses for economic hardship and crackdowns. Oh, and it would give the factories something to do other than get undercut by Vietnam. War sounds like the answer to all of my problems. I think this situation makes me more of a threat, don't you? > trick China into behaving stupidly Remember, they just acquired the world's industrial base. With our encouragement, because we thought it would turn them into a liberal democracy. It, uhhh, didn't. So did we really trick them? Or did we sell them the rope with which they will hang us (to paraphrase the Lenin quote)?

edgyquant 3y ago
No, the “war as a distraction thing” is an over repeated trope with little nuance or bearing on reality. War doesn’t distract but puts all eyes on you and losing one (which is always a risk) is a sure fire way to lose any power you were looking to keep via distraction anyway. Societies go to war when they think they can win and achieve political aims. Any distraction is an excuse to do something they were likely to do anyway.
- jdewerd 3y ago
  > over repeated trope with little nuance Says the guy whose entire argument is "war is risky." Well, yeah -- and a ruler weighs that risk against the risk of losing legitimacy and power due to a stalling economy. This story has repeated many times in history. That's why it's a "trope." > political aims. Any distraction is an excuse to do something they were likely to do anyway. You don't have to read between the lines on Taiwan, you can simply read the lines.
  - Duya-Taksis 3y ago
    [flagged]