4 ms·

Tom's commitment to accessibility is fantastic. Turn on the subtitles on any of his videos (particularly when there are multiple speakers) and you'll see the e

by M2Ys4U 3y ago

Tom's commitment to accessibility is fantastic. Turn on the subtitles on any of his videos (particularly when there are multiple speakers) and you'll see the effort that goes in to it. Far too many people who publish to YouTube just let users deal with the the auto-generated subtitles, even when they have the ability and budget to do it properly. "'Oh look at me I bought a Lamborghini!' Buy some damned subtitles" -- Tom Scott.[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m__OZ3ZsO4Y&t=334s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m__OZ3ZsO4Y&t=334s

throw0101b 3y ago
> Turn on the subtitles on any of his videos (particularly when there are multiple speakers) and you'll see the effort that goes in to it. He actually did a video on subtitles recently, "Why don't subtitles match dubbing?": * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pU9sHwNKc2c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pU9sHwNKc2c
- alister 3y ago
  His explanation about why subtitles don't match dubbing is not convincing. Basically he says that subtitling and dubbing are done by different teams with different goals. The dubbing crew tries to match lip movement. OK, so why not use the script that the dubbing team produced for the subtitles? Why do the translation twice? His explanation for that: (a) sometimes what's spoken is too long to fit as subtitles on the screen, (b) what's spoken needs to be summarized, like multiple people shouting over one another on a reality show, otherwise the subtitles would be a confusing jumble of words, and (c) jokes/slang/puns can be difficult to translate. I that agree (a) and (b) are legitimate reasons why subtitles might occasionally not match dubbing, but (c) is irrelevant. Jokes/slang/puns might be difficult or impossible to translate, but whatever way it ends up being translated can be spoken and written identically. In fact his goose joke is spoken and written in Portuguese as Eu estou gansado deles in the same way (timecode 3:57). I.e., the dubbing matches the subtitles. So the examples he gives do not support what he did in his own video. Furthermore, his video (like almost all videos and TV shows) is chock full of cases where the subtitles and dubbing are different for no plausible reason related to (a), (b), or (c) above: All examples below are when the video is set to Brazilian Portuguese audio and Brazilian Portuguese subtitles. Time: 0:22 Dubbing: E o motivo disso é que as legendas e a dublagem ... Subtitles: Isso acontece porque as legendas e a dublagem ... Time: 0:51 D: as legendas e a dublagem são praticamente idênticas S: as legendas e a dublagem são quase idênticas Time: 1:08 D: é sincronizar o movimento dos lábios o mais próximo possível S: é sincronizar os lábios o mais próximo possível Although I agree that reasons (a) and (b) above might be valid on rare occasions, I think the real reason that subtitles don't match dubbing is because they are done by different teams with no coordination, with different timelines and deadlines, and probably by completely different companies in different countries. If you cared strongly about this issue, I don't see any reason why the subtitles and dubbing couldn't be 99% or 99.9% identical in any particular target language. The 1% or 0.1% case being when the dialog is much too long for the screen or when you have to summarize a bunch of people talking simultaneously.
  - eozoon 3y ago
    It's been a while since I watch that video, but I'm pretty sure he mentioned the different team working on it reason as well, and the rest of the video was only explaining the intentional differences instead of the inherent differences that comes from different people working on the translations? Where I live, due different dialects being widely in use, it's common for TV and movies to show subtitle in the same language as the spoken language. Even then, it is not uncommon for the subtitle to deviate from what is spoken. Also, as an English learner I used to watch TV shows with subtitles for the visually impaired, and there are times when the English subtitle deviate from what's the actors says as well. Sometimes it's phrases that are commonly use in speech but strange to see written down; sometimes it's just tonal things that would get lost if written as-is; sometimes long speech is summarized so it doesn't' become a wall of text; sometimes it's most likely to just be mistakes. Unless the difference actually contains significantly different meaning and can lead to misunderstanding, I don't see why that'd an issue that is worth spending the effort on eliminating? Especially when it comes to translation, it's not like there's only one possible way of translating a sentence, who should make the editorial choice on which version is best and would that even be helpful for the purpose of disseminating information? If anything, having two version is probably better for gaging the tone and nuance in the original language.
    - alister 3y ago
      > Unless the difference actually contains significantly different meaning and can lead to misunderstanding, I don't see why that'd an issue The following are some of the reasons why it's very desirable that audio and subtitles should match: (1) It's great when you're trying to learn a language or to watch in a language in which you're not fluent. It's extremely frustrating when the audio and subtitles don't match. This point is made by many people in the comments to the video[1]. (2) Even if you're fluent in the language, if you're watching with both audio and subtitles enabled, it's jarring when they don't match. (3) If you didn't understand something in the audio (because of poor pronunciation, poor sound quality, or whatever), and you turn on subtitles to see what was said, you expect to see exactly what was said, not something "similar in meaning". (4) A reason quoted directly from the YouTube comments[1] (which I think is a more common a problem that people realize): As someone with sensory processing issues but technically normal hearing - sometimes understanding what i'm hearing comes with a short delay, and accurate subtitles help bridge that gap so I can still keep pace with what i'm watching! If the subtitles don't match, however, it can COMPLETELY throw me off because of the conflict in information and I end up more confused than if i'd only read the subtitles or only listened to the audio. Accurate subtitles are an accessibility feature! > phrases that are commonly use in speech but strange to see written down I'm curious to know if you can give an example of that? [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pU9sHwNKc2c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pU9sHwNKc2c
vorticalbox 3y ago
I've lost a lot of my hearing so I play games, watch videos and people who put effort into subtitles are very much appreciated. Simple things like tagging who is talking is so helpful to understanding what is going on when there are multiple people in the video
- Twirrim 3y ago
  In a number of his videos, they'll use different colours for different speakers. As best as I can see, while also choosing bright colours unlikely to cause problems for people with colour-blindness. It makes such a difference.
  - vorticalbox 3y ago
    Yes, a few people I watch do this and it's so helpful. I wish more people out the time in, given how the state of AI is going I'm not sure when the auto generated subtitles don't differentiate between different people.

by M2Ys4U 3y ago

throw0101b 3y ago

> Turn on the subtitles on any of his videos (particularly when there are multiple speakers) and you'll see the effort that goes in to it. He actually did a video on subtitles recently, "Why don't subtitles match dubbing?": * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pU9sHwNKc2c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pU9sHwNKc2c

alister 3y ago
His explanation about why subtitles don't match dubbing is not convincing. Basically he says that subtitling and dubbing are done by different teams with different goals. The dubbing crew tries to match lip movement. OK, so why not use the script that the dubbing team produced for the subtitles? Why do the translation twice? His explanation for that: (a) sometimes what's spoken is too long to fit as subtitles on the screen, (b) what's spoken needs to be summarized, like multiple people shouting over one another on a reality show, otherwise the subtitles would be a confusing jumble of words, and (c) jokes/slang/puns can be difficult to translate. I that agree (a) and (b) are legitimate reasons why subtitles might occasionally not match dubbing, but (c) is irrelevant. Jokes/slang/puns might be difficult or impossible to translate, but whatever way it ends up being translated can be spoken and written identically. In fact his goose joke is spoken and written in Portuguese as Eu estou gansado deles in the same way (timecode 3:57). I.e., the dubbing matches the subtitles. So the examples he gives do not support what he did in his own video. Furthermore, his video (like almost all videos and TV shows) is chock full of cases where the subtitles and dubbing are different for no plausible reason related to (a), (b), or (c) above: All examples below are when the video is set to Brazilian Portuguese audio and Brazilian Portuguese subtitles. Time: 0:22 Dubbing: E o motivo disso é que as legendas e a dublagem ... Subtitles: Isso acontece porque as legendas e a dublagem ... Time: 0:51 D: as legendas e a dublagem são praticamente idênticas S: as legendas e a dublagem são quase idênticas Time: 1:08 D: é sincronizar o movimento dos lábios o mais próximo possível S: é sincronizar os lábios o mais próximo possível Although I agree that reasons (a) and (b) above might be valid on rare occasions, I think the real reason that subtitles don't match dubbing is because they are done by different teams with no coordination, with different timelines and deadlines, and probably by completely different companies in different countries. If you cared strongly about this issue, I don't see any reason why the subtitles and dubbing couldn't be 99% or 99.9% identical in any particular target language. The 1% or 0.1% case being when the dialog is much too long for the screen or when you have to summarize a bunch of people talking simultaneously.
- eozoon 3y ago
  It's been a while since I watch that video, but I'm pretty sure he mentioned the different team working on it reason as well, and the rest of the video was only explaining the intentional differences instead of the inherent differences that comes from different people working on the translations? Where I live, due different dialects being widely in use, it's common for TV and movies to show subtitle in the same language as the spoken language. Even then, it is not uncommon for the subtitle to deviate from what is spoken. Also, as an English learner I used to watch TV shows with subtitles for the visually impaired, and there are times when the English subtitle deviate from what's the actors says as well. Sometimes it's phrases that are commonly use in speech but strange to see written down; sometimes it's just tonal things that would get lost if written as-is; sometimes long speech is summarized so it doesn't' become a wall of text; sometimes it's most likely to just be mistakes. Unless the difference actually contains significantly different meaning and can lead to misunderstanding, I don't see why that'd an issue that is worth spending the effort on eliminating? Especially when it comes to translation, it's not like there's only one possible way of translating a sentence, who should make the editorial choice on which version is best and would that even be helpful for the purpose of disseminating information? If anything, having two version is probably better for gaging the tone and nuance in the original language.
  - alister 3y ago
    > Unless the difference actually contains significantly different meaning and can lead to misunderstanding, I don't see why that'd an issue The following are some of the reasons why it's very desirable that audio and subtitles should match: (1) It's great when you're trying to learn a language or to watch in a language in which you're not fluent. It's extremely frustrating when the audio and subtitles don't match. This point is made by many people in the comments to the video[1]. (2) Even if you're fluent in the language, if you're watching with both audio and subtitles enabled, it's jarring when they don't match. (3) If you didn't understand something in the audio (because of poor pronunciation, poor sound quality, or whatever), and you turn on subtitles to see what was said, you expect to see exactly what was said, not something "similar in meaning". (4) A reason quoted directly from the YouTube comments[1] (which I think is a more common a problem that people realize): As someone with sensory processing issues but technically normal hearing - sometimes understanding what i'm hearing comes with a short delay, and accurate subtitles help bridge that gap so I can still keep pace with what i'm watching! If the subtitles don't match, however, it can COMPLETELY throw me off because of the conflict in information and I end up more confused than if i'd only read the subtitles or only listened to the audio. Accurate subtitles are an accessibility feature! > phrases that are commonly use in speech but strange to see written down I'm curious to know if you can give an example of that? [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pU9sHwNKc2c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pU9sHwNKc2c

vorticalbox 3y ago

I've lost a lot of my hearing so I play games, watch videos and people who put effort into subtitles are very much appreciated. Simple things like tagging who is talking is so helpful to understanding what is going on when there are multiple people in the video

Twirrim 3y ago
In a number of his videos, they'll use different colours for different speakers. As best as I can see, while also choosing bright colours unlikely to cause problems for people with colour-blindness. It makes such a difference.
- vorticalbox 3y ago
  Yes, a few people I watch do this and it's so helpful. I wish more people out the time in, given how the state of AI is going I'm not sure when the auto generated subtitles don't differentiate between different people.