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>The reality is that web is fast enough No its fuckin not. We have devices running literally billions operations per second, orders of magnitude faster then wh
by Xeamek 3y ago
>The reality is that web is fast enough
No its fuckin not.
We have devices running literally billions operations per second, orders of magnitude faster then what we had just few years ago, yet they struggle with rendering websites which comes down to presenting some good looking text.
It's insane how my pc can compute entire 3d world with millions of triangles, 120 times a second, but it lags when I open few websites because some front dev crambed some 'cool' paralax effect onto it, or because facebook, (who literally invented react) can't handle it well enough to not make memory leaks everywhere.
Did Usability of the web moved forward since few years ago? Sure. But compared to what computers can actually do, it's insane how bad things are nowadays
- austin-cheney 3y agoWith a modern CPU and DDR5 memory you should be capable of running no slower than 10 billion DOM operations per second in Firefox. Usability is not performance.
- Turing_Machine 3y ago> et they struggle with rendering websites which comes down to presenting some good looking text. Umm... you're putting the blame on the wrong thing here, dude. > because some front dev crambed some 'cool' paralax effect onto it, As I said.
- Xeamek 3y agoYou mean that the fornt end devs aren't actually responsible for the rendering, but the browser devs are? Would you apply the same logic to game optimization? That's it's not the responsibility of game devs, and instead we can shift all the blame to the gpu sdk team?
- Turing_Machine 3y ago> You mean that the fornt end devs aren't actually responsible for the rendering, but the browser devs are? Not at all. Quite the opposite, in fact. My position is that the browser is fast enough, and that any slowness is exactly the fault of the site devs. You said the browser wasn't fast enough. Previous poster: The reality is that web is fast enough You: No its fuckin not.
- Xeamek 3y agoFair. I took 'web is fast enough' as in 'current state of web is fast enough'. But if we are still sticking to the actual internals of web browsers, i don't doubt they are quite 'state of the art'. It's just the outcome for the end user sucks
- troupo 3y ago> You said the browser wasn't fast enough. It isn't. Not for what people are trying to make with it. Case in point: https://krausest.github.io/js-framework-benchmark/2023/table_chrome_120.0.6099.62.html https://krausest.github.io/js-framework-benchmark/2023/table... The benchmark creates 1000 rows that look like this: <tr> <td><a onclick={select this row}>random short text</a></td> <td><a onclick={remove this row}><span /></a></td> <td></td> </tr> So, less than a 10k elements in total. The fastest of the fastest attempts to do this takes 36 milliseconds to render. For what is essentially static markup with zero complex logic or complex interactions. In comparison: 1000 actors with complex interaction and behaviour, complex animations and lighting takes 4 milliseconds to render (in total, significanly more than the measley 5-6k static elements on the page): https://youtu.be/kXd0VDZDSks?si=SswSZLNFlRd7adsM&t=586 https://youtu.be/kXd0VDZDSks?si=SswSZLNFlRd7adsM&t=586 (at 9:46) I'm not saying everything should be Unreal Engine. But the web is on the lowest of the lowest end of the spectrum when it comes to performance.
- Turing_Machine 3y ago> 36 milliseconds to render. 36 ms is a very small amount of time (faster than the rod flicker fusion frequency, though not the cones), and 10K elements is far more elements than even a complex web page is likely to have. Can you give me some examples of real-world web pages that have 10K DOM elements on them, or anything like it? Running document.querySelectorAll('*').length on my personal amazon.com home page gives 3163 (obviously this is going to vary somewhat for different people), and amazon.com's front page is pretty damned complex. > I'm not saying everything should be Unreal Engine. I'm saying that almost nothing needs to be Unreal Engine. You are confusing "fast" with "fast enough".
- kaba0 3y agoIt’s almost like 3d rendering is vertices and shading is an embarrassingly parallel problem which is quite trivial to make faster by throwing more hardware at it. General layouting/text rendering, etc are not like that, and there is not even a “free” improvement anymore with single-threaded CPU speeds plateauing.