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I probably have a whole personal blog of my own on the topic, dear as it is to my soul. My two main pieces of advice: The bar is very very low, and share your

I probably have a whole personal blog of my own on the topic, dear as it is to my soul. My two main pieces of advice: The bar is very very low, and share your burden quickly. 99 times out of 100 you are way overestimating the value of what you're delivering and people's expectations for it, and underestimating the value of time i.e. shipping quickly. I've turned in so many things I'm not happy with and gotten a "this is great" that now I frequently just send over pseudocode, whiteboard sketches, and bullet point design docs to just get going on the feedback loop. Nobody has ever said "this is so bad we can't use any of it." I also realized I do much better finishing other people's work than starting my own .. and so does almost everyone else. Bringing other people in overcomes "the boredom paradox" of a looming deadline - working with other people has its own challenges, but it is definitely not boring! One specific thing I did that helped a few years ago at my precious company was I told my team, wrote in my email signature, ran a small study group, etc. On grit, procrastination, and "growth mindset" and just made a very intentional effort to tell people how I struggled with this problem. So many people shared the problem! It really gave us a nice community and helped us (and management) recognize some of these issues, lesrn some new techniques, and get better at coaching, setting expectations, and ultimately managing the work. So maybe last piece of advice is be open if you have these issues.

Noumenon72 3y ago
> One specific thing I did that helped a few years ago at my precious company was I told my team, wrote in my email signature, ran a small study group, etc. On grit, procrastination, and "growth mindset" and just made a very intentional effort to tell people how I struggled with this problem. What did you write in your email signature?
- kthejoker2 3y ago
  it was basically just an ad to join our Teams channel where we shared articles and had a book club. "I'm working on my unhealthy perfectionism by developing a growth mindset. Join me!"
stiglitz 3y ago
>I've turned in so many things I'm not happy with and gotten a "this is great" Great if this feedback is from users; not great if it's from somebody who's just been waiting for you to finish it so that they can sell it. Unfortunately in a big-company environment like the one I work in, the initial and dominant feedback is usually from the latter.
- kthejoker2 3y ago
  I guess I'm just not as cynical as that, or maybe I'm more clear eyed about my role in the chain of GTM, but I don't see what's so "unfortunate" about the scenario you described.
raindropm 3y ago
It's so relatable, especially after learning that I might have an ADHD condition. I also learned that it's linked to perfectionism and procrastination, traits that have defined me all my life. I'm still somewhat of a perfectionist, an old habit, but I'm now much more aware that a quick feedback loop and shipping things are far more valuable than perfect, over-optimized work. People may love such work, but it's often overkill and involves too many unnecessary hours of effort.
gloryjulio 3y ago
> 99 times out of 100 you are way overestimating the value of what you're delivering and people's expectations for it, and underestimating the value of time i.e. shipping quickly. Agree with this. Shipping is the most important quality. The faster you ship the faster you would be enjoying anything
- groestl 3y ago
  > Shipping is the most important quality. So.. Can you trick yourself into directing the perfectionism into shipping fastest?
  - garrickvanburen 3y ago
    The best I’ve been able to do is: if perfection == high quality, then shipping smaller iterations faster is the most cost-effective means of improving quality.
    - groestl 3y ago
      I did that too :) I learned that sometimes, I'd ship the perfect wrong thing. And to avoid that I'd ship earlier versions faster and get back to it after feedback.
  - Vinnl 3y ago
    That's roughly what I did. I often do side projects with two goals: there's something I want to exist, and something I want to learn. And I'll learn that thing by using it to build something I want. At one point, the thing I wanted to learn was "call something done". So I did that, and because it was a side project with learning as an explicit goal, I was able to actually do that - it was literally impossible to ship something imperfect, as shipping would already mean I'd perfectly reached my goal. But that turned out to be enough faking it to make it - the feeling of shipping it felt good, and gave me the confidence to spend a small amount of time to polish my side projects up enough for shipping, rather than a large amount of time to do everything I want. And it's way more fun now to be able to occasionally pull up an old side project of mine that's still usable, because I got it to a usable state in the first place. (In case anyone's interested, you can see the project, and how small its scope was, at https://agripongit.vincenttunru.com https://agripongit.vincenttunru.com.)
waihtis 3y ago
This resonates so much.
ahmedalsudani 3y ago
This is one of my favourite things I've read on here, and it frames working on a team the way it should be framed! Going to adopt every part of it. Thank you for sharing.
Apocryphon 3y ago
It's funny how software interviews run so opposite to this work reality.

Noumenon72 3y ago

> One specific thing I did that helped a few years ago at my precious company was I told my team, wrote in my email signature, ran a small study group, etc. On grit, procrastination, and "growth mindset" and just made a very intentional effort to tell people how I struggled with this problem. What did you write in your email signature?

kthejoker2 3y ago
it was basically just an ad to join our Teams channel where we shared articles and had a book club. "I'm working on my unhealthy perfectionism by developing a growth mindset. Join me!"

stiglitz 3y ago

>I've turned in so many things I'm not happy with and gotten a "this is great" Great if this feedback is from users; not great if it's from somebody who's just been waiting for you to finish it so that they can sell it. Unfortunately in a big-company environment like the one I work in, the initial and dominant feedback is usually from the latter.

kthejoker2 3y ago
I guess I'm just not as cynical as that, or maybe I'm more clear eyed about my role in the chain of GTM, but I don't see what's so "unfortunate" about the scenario you described.

raindropm 3y ago

It's so relatable, especially after learning that I might have an ADHD condition. I also learned that it's linked to perfectionism and procrastination, traits that have defined me all my life. I'm still somewhat of a perfectionist, an old habit, but I'm now much more aware that a quick feedback loop and shipping things are far more valuable than perfect, over-optimized work. People may love such work, but it's often overkill and involves too many unnecessary hours of effort.

gloryjulio 3y ago

> 99 times out of 100 you are way overestimating the value of what you're delivering and people's expectations for it, and underestimating the value of time i.e. shipping quickly. Agree with this. Shipping is the most important quality. The faster you ship the faster you would be enjoying anything

groestl 3y ago
> Shipping is the most important quality. So.. Can you trick yourself into directing the perfectionism into shipping fastest?
- garrickvanburen 3y ago
  The best I’ve been able to do is: if perfection == high quality, then shipping smaller iterations faster is the most cost-effective means of improving quality.
  - groestl 3y ago
    I did that too :) I learned that sometimes, I'd ship the perfect wrong thing. And to avoid that I'd ship earlier versions faster and get back to it after feedback.
- Vinnl 3y ago
  That's roughly what I did. I often do side projects with two goals: there's something I want to exist, and something I want to learn. And I'll learn that thing by using it to build something I want. At one point, the thing I wanted to learn was "call something done". So I did that, and because it was a side project with learning as an explicit goal, I was able to actually do that - it was literally impossible to ship something imperfect, as shipping would already mean I'd perfectly reached my goal. But that turned out to be enough faking it to make it - the feeling of shipping it felt good, and gave me the confidence to spend a small amount of time to polish my side projects up enough for shipping, rather than a large amount of time to do everything I want. And it's way more fun now to be able to occasionally pull up an old side project of mine that's still usable, because I got it to a usable state in the first place. (In case anyone's interested, you can see the project, and how small its scope was, at https://agripongit.vincenttunru.com https://agripongit.vincenttunru.com.)

waihtis 3y ago

This resonates so much.

ahmedalsudani 3y ago

This is one of my favourite things I've read on here, and it frames working on a team the way it should be framed! Going to adopt every part of it. Thank you for sharing.

Apocryphon 3y ago

It's funny how software interviews run so opposite to this work reality.