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I'll probably get downvotes for telling the truth, but whatever, it deserves to be said even if folks only see it for a few hours. Our industry is still full o

I'll probably get downvotes for telling the truth, but whatever, it deserves to be said even if folks only see it for a few hours. Our industry is still full of sexism and racism. Yes, things have gotten better. But most women in our industry can still tell you disturbing stories. We still have a long way to go. HN is a generally going to reflect our industry. Some days are better than others here and it really depends on the topic. But it's pretty disappointing when you do come across some blatant sexism or racism and folks agree with it. PG himself is occasionally an angry privileged man moaning about the woke mob so it's no surprise not much has changed here over the decades. The owners like it this way. PG and Dang also get a lot right about how to run a site like this. Both can be true.

antonvs 3y ago
> occasionally hahaha
lapcat 3y ago
> I'll probably get downvotes for For all X, saying "I'll probably get downvotes for" is an invitation to get downvoted.
- tchaffee 3y ago
  Yes it is. I've been here for over a decade. But despite your tip, I'm still going to speak freely this one time.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
ChrisMarshallNY 3y ago
> sexism and racism I'd add "ageism" to the list. Just sayin'...
- tchaffee 3y ago
  I've been working in our industry for almost four decades. Yeah, ageism is an ugly part of our industry too.
jocaal 3y ago
> Our industry is still full of sexism and racism. Im curious what people like you want. If you look at the rest of the world, the west seems like it is decades ahead with this sort of stuff than anyone else in the world. And social change on national scales don't happen overnight. Yes improvements can be made, but HN is a site focussed on technology and that is what is mostly discussed. If some sexism or racism or whatever slips through, thats just the world we live in today. If you look at the youth today, they are already much more accommodating towards diverse views. Just give the world time and you'll see on average things will get better. But forcing your views onto people who grew up differently than you is just annoying. [edit] when saying "people like you" I am refering to the highly vocal inflexible people on the interwebs.
- naikrovek 3y ago
  > Im curious what people like you want. Don't be insane. You know what we want, and that's an end to sexism and racism. I don't care how we compare to other countries, I care how we rank on the "are we sexist or racist at all" metric. Honestly, your question is one of the worst I have ever read, because it insinuates that you think it's ok to still be racist and sexist as long as we're less racist and sexist than others. We're not less racist or sexist than anyone else in the world, for one thing, so the premise for your complaint is baseless, and the amount of racism and sexism that is acceptable is zero, no matter where you are in the world. Don't be insane.
- antonvs 3y ago
  > the west seems like it is decades ahead with this sort of stuff "The west"? Ok, so when is the US going to become part of the west? The previous elected president of the United States believes that because he's privileged - by virtue of being a nepobaby - he can "grab women by the pussy", with no consequences. So you tell me, what do "people like [us] want"? Do you really have no idea?
  - rco8786 3y ago
    This site is overwhelmingly anti trump though. In the corpus of global communities this tends to be an extremely accepting and courteous one, from what I can tell over the last 13 years being on here.
growingkittens 3y ago
A lot of users don't seem to recognize racism or sexism when it is not directed at them. This leads them to think it is not a problem. If you point out something specific, some users will double down on their view that nothing is wrong. They start arguing as if they know nothing, and demand that every detail must be elaborated to them on a silver platter. Oh, and the demands for stats. Nevermind that the social sciences are in their infancy, and largely incapable of measuring the effects of things such as racism and sexism. Science itself is the equivalent of a toddler - it is systematic (step by step), not systemic (whole picture). Reality is made of interconnected systems, and both perspectives are required to understand reality.
- seabass-labrax 3y ago
  > Science itself is the equivalent of a toddler Or even a kitten ;)
  - growingkittens 3y ago
    Kittens progress much faster than toddlers!
- the_only_law 3y ago
  > A lot of users don't seem to recognize racism or sexism when it is not directed at them. This leads them to think it is not a problem. Well for a site that loves to jack off to how much smarter they are than the rest of the internet, I’m just shocked.
zzzzzzzza 3y ago
[flagged]
- tchaffee 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - zzzzzzzza 3y ago
    yea see I run my own business and I don't consider the gender or race of people applying (aka not racist/sexist) > It's hard to even find women to interview, let alone hire. from my perspective this is a subtle admission of active positive discrimination on your part, frankly if i was a woman maybe i would find it a little off putting that a bunch of old guys were real keen to get me under their supervision if there is a movement to get men into nursing, it's not nearly as vocal (and why would there be?)
    - tchaffee 3y ago
      > yea see I run my own business Ok, you still have zero experience in our industry, per your own words. And it shows. > I don't consider the gender or race of people applying (aka not racist/sexist) So you're ok with reinforcing any existing sexism and racism in the pipeline. I'll give you a concrete example. We have to choose a speaker for our tech conference. All else being equal the tie-breaker will be to choose the person with the most speaking experience. Can you see how you've possibly and probably just reinforced existing sexism? I would guess you cannot see it. > a subtle admission of active positive discrimination on your part Nah. I usually don't have a say about who gets into the hiring pipeline. And when I have had a say I've always talked to recruiters about qualifications not gender or race. So you got that wrong. > frankly if i was a woman maybe i would find it a little off putting that a bunch of old guys were real keen to get me under their supervision You should speak to some actual women so you can correct your bad guesses. A bunch of old guys? What makes you think they are guys or old? Keen to get someone under their supervision? You sound creepy.
      - 3y ago

antonvs 3y ago

> occasionally hahaha

lapcat 3y ago

> I'll probably get downvotes for For all X, saying "I'll probably get downvotes for" is an invitation to get downvoted.

tchaffee 3y ago
Yes it is. I've been here for over a decade. But despite your tip, I'm still going to speak freely this one time.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

ChrisMarshallNY 3y ago

> sexism and racism I'd add "ageism" to the list. Just sayin'...

tchaffee 3y ago
I've been working in our industry for almost four decades. Yeah, ageism is an ugly part of our industry too.

jocaal 3y ago

> Our industry is still full of sexism and racism. Im curious what people like you want. If you look at the rest of the world, the west seems like it is decades ahead with this sort of stuff than anyone else in the world. And social change on national scales don't happen overnight. Yes improvements can be made, but HN is a site focussed on technology and that is what is mostly discussed. If some sexism or racism or whatever slips through, thats just the world we live in today. If you look at the youth today, they are already much more accommodating towards diverse views. Just give the world time and you'll see on average things will get better. But forcing your views onto people who grew up differently than you is just annoying. [edit] when saying "people like you" I am refering to the highly vocal inflexible people on the interwebs.

naikrovek 3y ago
> Im curious what people like you want. Don't be insane. You know what we want, and that's an end to sexism and racism. I don't care how we compare to other countries, I care how we rank on the "are we sexist or racist at all" metric. Honestly, your question is one of the worst I have ever read, because it insinuates that you think it's ok to still be racist and sexist as long as we're less racist and sexist than others. We're not less racist or sexist than anyone else in the world, for one thing, so the premise for your complaint is baseless, and the amount of racism and sexism that is acceptable is zero, no matter where you are in the world. Don't be insane.
antonvs 3y ago
> the west seems like it is decades ahead with this sort of stuff "The west"? Ok, so when is the US going to become part of the west? The previous elected president of the United States believes that because he's privileged - by virtue of being a nepobaby - he can "grab women by the pussy", with no consequences. So you tell me, what do "people like [us] want"? Do you really have no idea?
- rco8786 3y ago
  This site is overwhelmingly anti trump though. In the corpus of global communities this tends to be an extremely accepting and courteous one, from what I can tell over the last 13 years being on here.

growingkittens 3y ago

A lot of users don't seem to recognize racism or sexism when it is not directed at them. This leads them to think it is not a problem. If you point out something specific, some users will double down on their view that nothing is wrong. They start arguing as if they know nothing, and demand that every detail must be elaborated to them on a silver platter. Oh, and the demands for stats. Nevermind that the social sciences are in their infancy, and largely incapable of measuring the effects of things such as racism and sexism. Science itself is the equivalent of a toddler - it is systematic (step by step), not systemic (whole picture). Reality is made of interconnected systems, and both perspectives are required to understand reality.

seabass-labrax 3y ago
> Science itself is the equivalent of a toddler Or even a kitten ;)
- growingkittens 3y ago
  Kittens progress much faster than toddlers!
the_only_law 3y ago
> A lot of users don't seem to recognize racism or sexism when it is not directed at them. This leads them to think it is not a problem. Well for a site that loves to jack off to how much smarter they are than the rest of the internet, I’m just shocked.

zzzzzzzza 3y ago

[flagged]

tchaffee 3y ago
[flagged]
- zzzzzzzza 3y ago
  yea see I run my own business and I don't consider the gender or race of people applying (aka not racist/sexist) > It's hard to even find women to interview, let alone hire. from my perspective this is a subtle admission of active positive discrimination on your part, frankly if i was a woman maybe i would find it a little off putting that a bunch of old guys were real keen to get me under their supervision if there is a movement to get men into nursing, it's not nearly as vocal (and why would there be?)
  - tchaffee 3y ago
    > yea see I run my own business Ok, you still have zero experience in our industry, per your own words. And it shows. > I don't consider the gender or race of people applying (aka not racist/sexist) So you're ok with reinforcing any existing sexism and racism in the pipeline. I'll give you a concrete example. We have to choose a speaker for our tech conference. All else being equal the tie-breaker will be to choose the person with the most speaking experience. Can you see how you've possibly and probably just reinforced existing sexism? I would guess you cannot see it. > a subtle admission of active positive discrimination on your part Nah. I usually don't have a say about who gets into the hiring pipeline. And when I have had a say I've always talked to recruiters about qualifications not gender or race. So you got that wrong. > frankly if i was a woman maybe i would find it a little off putting that a bunch of old guys were real keen to get me under their supervision You should speak to some actual women so you can correct your bad guesses. A bunch of old guys? What makes you think they are guys or old? Keen to get someone under their supervision? You sound creepy.
    - 3y ago