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Personally, if a link sounds interesting, I go directly to the hn comments, and only rarely do I click the link itself. This is the best comment section on the

Personally, if a link sounds interesting, I go directly to the hn comments, and only rarely do I click the link itself. This is the best comment section on the internet, not sure what there is to be frustrated about. (Thanks pg and dang for putting so much effort in keeping it this way!)

NhanH 3y ago
HN is a giant echo chamber. Some people dislikes any and all echo chamber, regardless of the bias. And then you have people disliking the slant of HN's echo chamber as well. To put it another way, HN as a whole has strong opinions on a lot of things. And anyone or anything with strong opinions will have people disliking them, for better or worse :-)
- gosub100 3y ago
  I see it as a giant argument chamber. You can't say the "sky is blue" without someone asking you for sources or ackchually-ing you because an eclipse darkens the sky, etc. People deliberately take the most disingenuous reading of commentary and respond to it to make the poster look as stupid or insecure as possible. I can't see how that is an echo chamber. (and I see the irony in opposing your statement here, while making the claim that most comments are disagreements). I will concede, however, that certain topics (teslas, apple, among others) there is a hive mind that will downvote viciously if you hit a nerve.
  - NhanH 3y ago
    Those arguments are just another echo chamber where the echoing content itself is meta rather than specific. So instead of "X is Y", it's more like "you should use method Z to determine whether X is Y". It's just the same breed of "correlation is not causation", "more critical thinking is needed", or "citation needed" as you mentioned.
- lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 3y ago
  What topics and conclusions do you often see echoed here? I don’t mean to agree or disagree with the statement, just curious about your observations.
  - cantSpellSober 3y ago
    Off the top of my head (please add): Any website with JS is bad Everything is cancel culture Startup culture is bad (ironic) Anything cryptocurrency is bad HN's design/layout is perfect Joe Rogan is a god SWEs are underpaid and not respected Everything is a cargo cult dang is a god Everything is a logical fallacy Vercel is evil Piracy is harmless and good Correlation never indicates causation Paywalls are bad except on my Substack I think Elon flipped from being worshipped to being hated Steve Jobs was a god Being a contrarian makes you smart Everything is virtue signalling
    - fragmede 3y ago
      Electron is the devil's GUI toolbox Only works in mice there was a whole.HN parody thread - http://bradconte.com/files/misc/HackerNewsParodyThread/ http://bradconte.com/files/misc/HackerNewsParodyThread/ https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33680661 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33680661 It's important to be self-aware enough that every group has its own groupthink, HN is no exception, and to know the thought bubble you occupy when you're in that group.
    - throwitaway1123 3y ago
      - MongoDB is unequivocally bad. - Postgres is the final database, unless you need something embedded, in which case you may use sqlite.
  - lurkerforawhile 3y ago
    Here's another one: Non-monogamous people are responsible for spreading sexual diseases Discourse about reproductive health can be a ride on HN.
mcny 3y ago
Two things can be true at once. > This is the best comment section on the internet > I generally dislike the culture there, it's almost impossible to read any of the comments without being frustrated about the industry I work in or am adjacent to and some of the people who inhabit it Just because something is the best (or least bad) doesn't mean it is good. Dang does a good job (for the longest time, my personal conspiracy theory was dang is not one person but like one of those names used by a whole team). However, if you remember the silicon valley bank saga, it is clear that the people here only talk the talk when it isn't their own money on the line. We ridicule the New York financial industry but look at the comments here about making ALL depositors/creditors whole in the comments and the panicked tweets Garry Tan put out. I can't even imagine the strings they must have pulled behind the scenes. I think their criticism is fairly tame. Also, because of the nice firebase API, I think at this point writing a HN client is a rite of passage like print hello world (mine is in angular and performs terribly).
mooreds 3y ago
I do this about 60% of the time too. The comments are guaranteed to be a lightweight page and not ask me to approve cookies, notifications, etc as well. But the comments do have a tendency to get off track or discuss topics not applicable to the original post. Still can be valuable to read, though.
- sellmesoap 3y ago
  Or better yet, help me decide if it's worth turning JavaScript on, or find a link to an archived version!
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
lapcat 3y ago
> I go directly to the hn comments, and only rarely do I click the link itself. > not sure what there is to be frustrated about. You actually just explained what there is to be frustrated about.
- antonvs 3y ago
  It's absolutely incredible to see people proudly saying "only rarely do I click the link itself." They are not "part of the problem". They are the problem.
  - celeritascelery 3y ago
    If you are going to comment, then you should read the article. But most things posted here (especially by science and tech journalists) are not worth reading and you can get right to the actual information by looking at the comments. No need to read all that extra fluff from some content mill. If it still sounds interesting, then go read it.
    - lapcat 3y ago
      > you can get right to the actual information by looking at the comments There's a tragedy of the commons here, where the majority is going to the comments first without reading the article, expecting the other commenters to inform them about the article. Given this common practice, what makes you think you can get right to the actual information by looking at the comments? They're often less reliable than the articles themselves.
      - Hugsun 3y ago
        I don't see how that analogy applies. There is no depletable resource being exhausted. There is a Nash equilibrium where experts and those who are interested read/know the topic of the article and write some commentary about it. The most insightful comments usually receive more upvotes from everyone (including non-readers). reading the top comments is thus generally a good timesave to risk of being misinformed tradeoff that many users have decided to be worth taking. Being less reliable can be acceptable if it reduces the time to read by 10x or more.
tchaffee 3y ago
I'll probably get downvotes for telling the truth, but whatever, it deserves to be said even if folks only see it for a few hours. Our industry is still full of sexism and racism. Yes, things have gotten better. But most women in our industry can still tell you disturbing stories. We still have a long way to go. HN is a generally going to reflect our industry. Some days are better than others here and it really depends on the topic. But it's pretty disappointing when you do come across some blatant sexism or racism and folks agree with it. PG himself is occasionally an angry privileged man moaning about the woke mob so it's no surprise not much has changed here over the decades. The owners like it this way. PG and Dang also get a lot right about how to run a site like this. Both can be true.
- antonvs 3y ago
  > occasionally hahaha
- lapcat 3y ago
  > I'll probably get downvotes for For all X, saying "I'll probably get downvotes for" is an invitation to get downvoted.
  - tchaffee 3y ago
    Yes it is. I've been here for over a decade. But despite your tip, I'm still going to speak freely this one time.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- ChrisMarshallNY 3y ago
  > sexism and racism I'd add "ageism" to the list. Just sayin'...
  - tchaffee 3y ago
    I've been working in our industry for almost four decades. Yeah, ageism is an ugly part of our industry too.
rco8786 3y ago
I do the same. Maybe I’m just obtuse but I find this site to basically be the most civil, well meaning, and courteous place on the internet. Never understood the problems people have here.
- _cenw 3y ago
  I think it's born from contrast. Sometimes you'll see people comment on something you are more informed on (usually things outside tech) where the takes are just smart-sounding extrapolation but you don't have the mental fortitude to start a huge discussion under a comment that already veered into off-topic because you know there's a good change it'll be understood as starting a culture war mudfest (while the original comment usually is not, because there's either agreement or passive benefit of the doubt). They're just weird moments where you notice how unreflected a usually very reflected, educated and measured community can be, and if you're personally affected by that category misinformation that can be quite annoying.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
cantSpellSober 3y ago
> only rarely do I click the link itself This leads to a lot of comments where someone clearly just read the title. These comments lack nuance and often make some argument that was already addressed by the author of the post. (I'm guilty too, just sayin)

NhanH 3y ago

HN is a giant echo chamber. Some people dislikes any and all echo chamber, regardless of the bias. And then you have people disliking the slant of HN's echo chamber as well. To put it another way, HN as a whole has strong opinions on a lot of things. And anyone or anything with strong opinions will have people disliking them, for better or worse :-)

gosub100 3y ago
I see it as a giant argument chamber. You can't say the "sky is blue" without someone asking you for sources or ackchually-ing you because an eclipse darkens the sky, etc. People deliberately take the most disingenuous reading of commentary and respond to it to make the poster look as stupid or insecure as possible. I can't see how that is an echo chamber. (and I see the irony in opposing your statement here, while making the claim that most comments are disagreements). I will concede, however, that certain topics (teslas, apple, among others) there is a hive mind that will downvote viciously if you hit a nerve.
- NhanH 3y ago
  Those arguments are just another echo chamber where the echoing content itself is meta rather than specific. So instead of "X is Y", it's more like "you should use method Z to determine whether X is Y". It's just the same breed of "correlation is not causation", "more critical thinking is needed", or "citation needed" as you mentioned.
lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 3y ago
What topics and conclusions do you often see echoed here? I don’t mean to agree or disagree with the statement, just curious about your observations.
- cantSpellSober 3y ago
  Off the top of my head (please add): Any website with JS is bad Everything is cancel culture Startup culture is bad (ironic) Anything cryptocurrency is bad HN's design/layout is perfect Joe Rogan is a god SWEs are underpaid and not respected Everything is a cargo cult dang is a god Everything is a logical fallacy Vercel is evil Piracy is harmless and good Correlation never indicates causation Paywalls are bad except on my Substack I think Elon flipped from being worshipped to being hated Steve Jobs was a god Being a contrarian makes you smart Everything is virtue signalling
  - fragmede 3y ago
    Electron is the devil's GUI toolbox Only works in mice there was a whole.HN parody thread - http://bradconte.com/files/misc/HackerNewsParodyThread/ http://bradconte.com/files/misc/HackerNewsParodyThread/ https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33680661 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33680661 It's important to be self-aware enough that every group has its own groupthink, HN is no exception, and to know the thought bubble you occupy when you're in that group.
  - throwitaway1123 3y ago
    - MongoDB is unequivocally bad. - Postgres is the final database, unless you need something embedded, in which case you may use sqlite.
- lurkerforawhile 3y ago
  Here's another one: Non-monogamous people are responsible for spreading sexual diseases Discourse about reproductive health can be a ride on HN.

mcny 3y ago

Two things can be true at once. > This is the best comment section on the internet > I generally dislike the culture there, it's almost impossible to read any of the comments without being frustrated about the industry I work in or am adjacent to and some of the people who inhabit it Just because something is the best (or least bad) doesn't mean it is good. Dang does a good job (for the longest time, my personal conspiracy theory was dang is not one person but like one of those names used by a whole team). However, if you remember the silicon valley bank saga, it is clear that the people here only talk the talk when it isn't their own money on the line. We ridicule the New York financial industry but look at the comments here about making ALL depositors/creditors whole in the comments and the panicked tweets Garry Tan put out. I can't even imagine the strings they must have pulled behind the scenes. I think their criticism is fairly tame. Also, because of the nice firebase API, I think at this point writing a HN client is a rite of passage like print hello world (mine is in angular and performs terribly).

mooreds 3y ago

I do this about 60% of the time too. The comments are guaranteed to be a lightweight page and not ask me to approve cookies, notifications, etc as well. But the comments do have a tendency to get off track or discuss topics not applicable to the original post. Still can be valuable to read, though.

sellmesoap 3y ago
Or better yet, help me decide if it's worth turning JavaScript on, or find a link to an archived version!
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

lapcat 3y ago

> I go directly to the hn comments, and only rarely do I click the link itself. > not sure what there is to be frustrated about. You actually just explained what there is to be frustrated about.

antonvs 3y ago
It's absolutely incredible to see people proudly saying "only rarely do I click the link itself." They are not "part of the problem". They are the problem.
- celeritascelery 3y ago
  If you are going to comment, then you should read the article. But most things posted here (especially by science and tech journalists) are not worth reading and you can get right to the actual information by looking at the comments. No need to read all that extra fluff from some content mill. If it still sounds interesting, then go read it.
  - lapcat 3y ago
    > you can get right to the actual information by looking at the comments There's a tragedy of the commons here, where the majority is going to the comments first without reading the article, expecting the other commenters to inform them about the article. Given this common practice, what makes you think you can get right to the actual information by looking at the comments? They're often less reliable than the articles themselves.
    - Hugsun 3y ago
      I don't see how that analogy applies. There is no depletable resource being exhausted. There is a Nash equilibrium where experts and those who are interested read/know the topic of the article and write some commentary about it. The most insightful comments usually receive more upvotes from everyone (including non-readers). reading the top comments is thus generally a good timesave to risk of being misinformed tradeoff that many users have decided to be worth taking. Being less reliable can be acceptable if it reduces the time to read by 10x or more.

tchaffee 3y ago

I'll probably get downvotes for telling the truth, but whatever, it deserves to be said even if folks only see it for a few hours. Our industry is still full of sexism and racism. Yes, things have gotten better. But most women in our industry can still tell you disturbing stories. We still have a long way to go. HN is a generally going to reflect our industry. Some days are better than others here and it really depends on the topic. But it's pretty disappointing when you do come across some blatant sexism or racism and folks agree with it. PG himself is occasionally an angry privileged man moaning about the woke mob so it's no surprise not much has changed here over the decades. The owners like it this way. PG and Dang also get a lot right about how to run a site like this. Both can be true.

antonvs 3y ago
> occasionally hahaha
lapcat 3y ago
> I'll probably get downvotes for For all X, saying "I'll probably get downvotes for" is an invitation to get downvoted.
- tchaffee 3y ago
  Yes it is. I've been here for over a decade. But despite your tip, I'm still going to speak freely this one time.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
ChrisMarshallNY 3y ago
> sexism and racism I'd add "ageism" to the list. Just sayin'...
- tchaffee 3y ago
  I've been working in our industry for almost four decades. Yeah, ageism is an ugly part of our industry too.

rco8786 3y ago

I do the same. Maybe I’m just obtuse but I find this site to basically be the most civil, well meaning, and courteous place on the internet. Never understood the problems people have here.

_cenw 3y ago
I think it's born from contrast. Sometimes you'll see people comment on something you are more informed on (usually things outside tech) where the takes are just smart-sounding extrapolation but you don't have the mental fortitude to start a huge discussion under a comment that already veered into off-topic because you know there's a good change it'll be understood as starting a culture war mudfest (while the original comment usually is not, because there's either agreement or passive benefit of the doubt). They're just weird moments where you notice how unreflected a usually very reflected, educated and measured community can be, and if you're personally affected by that category misinformation that can be quite annoying.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

cantSpellSober 3y ago

> only rarely do I click the link itself This leads to a lot of comments where someone clearly just read the title. These comments lack nuance and often make some argument that was already addressed by the author of the post. (I'm guilty too, just sayin)