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Disney's earliest Mickey Mouse enters public domain as US copyright expires
- hgs3 3y agoDisney's been using public domain works for decades (Snow White, Beauty and the Beast, Cinderella, etc). It's only fair they give back.
- coolandsmartrr 3y agoI believe it was Larry Lessig who pointed out Disney's double standard: their enthusiasm in adapting stories in public domain vs being highly protective of their own works.
- countrymile 3y agoThe BBC has Disney as the owners of the snapshot they use. It's a nice thing to do. But is it still correct? Are Disney still the owner's but the image is now public domain?
- Freak_NL 3y agoIt's a credit to the image's source, which is unrelated to ownership. They credit Getty Images for some public domain imagery as well: that is where they got the image from.
- BaudouinVH 3y agoOnly the Steamboat Willie Mickey enters the public domain if I remember correctly.
- Retric 3y agoAny derivative works that lack sufficient creativity on their own also enter the public domain. It’s an interesting question where exactly that line is.
- bretpiatt 3y agoIt's probably not this far, DALL-E / GPT4 has some issues.... https://twitter.com/bpiatt/status/1740915306359329233 https://twitter.com/bpiatt/status/1740915306359329233
- furyofantares 3y agoThe claim that this looks like modern mickey mouse is wild to me.
- Hugsun 3y agoThis tweet seems like a fairly lazy combination of the recent ChatGPT copyright discussion with the Disney one.
- 8organicbits 3y agoDoing a side by side. MM doesn't have visible front teeth, his ears are smaller and fully black, the silhouette is different. But the shape of the face and features, including where the shape of the black fur decends (at the widows peak?), the eyebrows, the eyes with white, all look quite similar. To me it's much closer to a modern Mickey than the original flat black and white.
- flipthefrog 3y agoLooks more like Mighty Mouse https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mighty_Mouse https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mighty_Mouse
- Heliodex 3y agoThis means Minnie Mouse enters the public domain as well, and if some of the promotional material for the animation is included as well, could also include the red-and-yellow colour version of Mickey.
- alanjay 3y agoAnd about time, too!
- imadethis 3y agoAlso Wikimedia Commons' Media of the Day: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Main_Page https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Main_Page
- userbinator 3y agohttps://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Steamboat_Willie_(1928)_by_Walt_Disney.webm https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Steamboat_Willie_(19... There's WebM, VP9 in various resolutions, and... MJPEG ? Setting aside the oddity of serving a 95-year-old cartoon in full HD, that's still an odd selection of codecs. Everything up to MPEG-4 ASP (XviD etc.) has already been patent-expired. There's also MP3 there, so why not an MPEG-2 (H.262), MPEG-1, or even H.261 encode?
- globular-toast 3y agoWhy is it odd? The original is analogue. What resolution should it be scanned at? What about the Mona Lisa?
- chungy 3y agoPeople often think that old video must be stuck to standard definition (or worse), because they're used to seeing it on NTSC/PAL broadcasts, VHS, or DVD. The reality is, these things were captured on film, and there's no reason you can't scan the film in high definition resolutions. Film is an analogue medium whose upper bound for resolution is dictated by the film stock and grain; 35mm film is sufficient to produce modern 4K scans and was one of the most common stocks in analogue video production. If anything, modern 1080p/2160p scans of old film bring the material much closer to how people with projectors originally saw the media, instead of a blurry scaled down version made for old television. If I may provide my favorite example, check out Wizard of Oz in 4K. It's from 1939, in full color, and holds up wonderfully well. The 4K transfer allows you to really appreciate the set design and makeup especially.
- RyanHamilton 3y ago
- londons_explore 3y agoDisney now uses that 'steamboat willie' intro clip at the start of most of their stuff. Are they trying to use it as a trademark, and therefore use trademark law rather than copyright law to stop people using steamboat Willie publicly?
- gambiting 3y agoThe Mickey Mouse head is literally the logo of the Disney corporation, it is and it will remain their trademark in perpetuity(or for as long as Disney exists). Trademarks are different than copyright - you can't start a company and use Mickey mouse as your logo for instance, because then the trademark law would kick in. But you can still make your own story/cartoon/film with Mickey Mouse the character and it should be fine.
- manquer 3y agoOnly the steamboat Willie version, the one without gloves . Also practically it doesn’t matter whether it could be fine, most businesses can’t afford to fight an extended legal battle with Disney
- cool_dude85 3y agoSomeone, in one of these threads a few weeks ago, posted what was claimed to be a movie poster/ad from the same year with his red pants and gloves: https://www.thehistoryblog.com/archives/22084 https://www.thehistoryblog.com/archives/22084 If you could verify the timing on that I guess it would go into public domain as well.
- geuis 3y agoCorridor posted the original cartoon a couple hours ago: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hmzO--ox7X0 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hmzO--ox7X0
- geiagal 3y agoThe Hobbit and Lord of the Rings enters the public domain in New Zealand, Egypt, and a couple other countries. Would have entered into the public domain in Canada had the government not signed a last-minute 20 year copyright extension act last year.
- praptak 3y agoRetroactive copyright extensions are changing the deal after it has been made, for the benefit of copyright holders and to the detriment of the public. This is unethical. That's why I get angry when copyright holders try to make ethical arguments against piracy.
- Phiwise_ 3y agoYou have a deal with a copyright holder? Have you considered taking them to court over it? I'd donate to help get you what their contract owes you, and I'm sure others would, too.
- coldlight 3y agoThe deal that society has is that "we follow the law and they follow the law". Not "we follow the law and they have it changed so that we have to do whatever they want".
- pasiaj 3y agoThe law is the will of ”we”. ”They” can’t change the law – only ”we” can.
- concordDance 3y agoI'm not sure this is actually true anywhere but Switzerland.
- dotancohen 3y ago
- SubiculumCode 3y agomight have to write a mousy ttrpg real quick like and put it up on driverhru
- blendo 3y ago“US copyright law says the rights to characters can be held for 95 years.” 95 years ago was also about when the cinema and recording industries began. Since then, I’ll argue, all recorded entertainment and theatrical performances have become “fixed” into our culture similar to how Plato, the Bible, and Shakespeare became cultural touchstones due to literacy and the printing press. And now, as they enter the public domain, Mickey and others are becoming, for better or worse, an inescapable part of our common heritage.
- 8organicbits 3y agoIs Mickey content good enough that we'll see continued interest? My encounters with Mickey (35 year old American) have been only through the movie Fantasia and I know he is a prominent mascot of Disney World. But the pull to Disney world is probably what, Star Wars or Pixar these days? I was recently thinking Star Wars and the Friends TV series could reach that permanent status. Mickey seems unlikely to me.
- cool_dude85 3y agoMickey's a big one targeted at little kids. His clubhouse, funhouse, roadster racers, etc. are very popular with that demo, I assure you.
- 8organicbits 3y agoHuh, I have two young children. No idea what those are. We use Disney Plus almost exclusively for Bluey and Frozen. Is that also Disney Plus?
- cool_dude85 3y agoStay away if possible, especially clubhouse which does the "the characters talk to the child and ask them questions" thing that I personally hate. But yes, at least in the US they're all on plus.
- weinzierl 3y agoBefore people cheer too much, surprisingly works can retroactively be snatched back from the public domain and go back into copyrighted state. The prime example is the movie Metropolis. It became public domain in 1953 but copyright was restored in 1996 only to re-enter the public domain a year ago today.
- Caligatio 3y agoThis intrigues me as I had no idea, at one time, that the US didn't have the most restrictive copyright laws in the world. It looks like the US had to restore/extend copyrights to foreign works as part of the agreement that established the WTO? That being said, copyright is a product of laws and laws can always change. Your comment made me believe that the copyright owner somehow extended their rights; not a literal act of Congress.
- josteink 3y ago> It looks like the US had to restore/extend copyrights to foreign works as part of the agreement that established the WTO? What happens is that lobbyists for the same (copyright) interest groups instructs their governments that extended copyright is in their interest, and that whoever have the longest should “win” and become the norm. WTOs are basically big business “negotiating” with itself through nation states.
- mytailorisrich 3y agoInitially (19th century) the US did not recognise copyright of foreign works. This is all about interests: when you are a net importer you want to make it easy and cheap to reproduce and use works. Buy once you start being an exporter you want your works protected, and that's a quid pro quo.
- xorcist 3y agoRead up on the history of Hollywood! It's deeply intertwined with the history of copyright.
- direwolf20 3y ago
- entwife 3y agoIt's ironic that a cartoon that depicts musical improvisation is such a symbol of passively consumed culture.
- andsoitis 3y ago> It's ironic that a cartoon that depicts musical improvisation is such a symbol of passively consumed culture. I don't know that I would describe it as ironic. Throughout the ages, the entertainment that people enjoyed in their various cultures depicted all sorts of active things (including playing music, painting, killing the bad guy, etc.) while the audience sat back and enjoyed it passively (mostly; they laughed, got frightened, talked to each other, etc.). Even architecture was developed to create the space for performance/audience. https://www.worldhistory.org/article/895/greek-theatre-architecture/ https://www.worldhistory.org/article/895/greek-theatre-archi...
- cubefox 3y agoThis is a silly question, but when exactly did Mickey Mouse enter the public domain? On January 1, sure, but which time zone?
- zinekeller 3y agoOn whatever local time where you are (at least for US). The "at least in US" is important since that most people who didn't clarify that "Steamboat Willie" is in the public domain specifically in reference to US laws - in other countries it is either already PD, or in a handful countries like Mexico (which has author+100, technically no concept of corporate copyright except for the government) is still not PD.
- mFixman 3y agoDoes that mean that I can publish a Mickey video in New York that's illegal to watch in California for the next couple of hours? Neat.
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- ajdude 3y agoThere's apparently a poster of Mickcy wearing gloves in full color from the same year Steamboat Willie came out (1928). Does this mean that full color gloved Mickcy is also in the public domain? https://www.huffpost.com/entry/mickey-mouse-poster_n_2149610 https://www.huffpost.com/entry/mickey-mouse-poster_n_2149610
- zozbot234 3y agoIs this really in the same year? Wiki shows a black/white poster with the mouse wearing light gloves, then later in the article a color version from 1978.
- ajdude 3y agoDefinitely seems to be from 1928: https://movieposters.ha.com/itm/movie-posters/animation/mickey-mouse-stock-poster-celebrity-productions-1928-one-sheet-27-x-41-/a/7067-83117.s https://movieposters.ha.com/itm/movie-posters/animation/mick...
- josho 3y agoDisney has modern Mickey wrapped up in trademarks. It will be very interesting watching what Disney does when inevitably derivative works stray from steamboat Willie and approach the appearance of modern mickey. Disney has been preparing for this day.
- sangnoir 3y agoI suspect that is why Disney has been using Steamboat Willy as its production logo in recent years. Let's wait to see how it shakes out in the courts - but perhaps the threats will be enough.
- hbs18 3y agoThey might have a harder time fighting the use of Steamboat Willy considering that a trademark has less restrictions on its use than a copyrighted work.
- ChrisArchitect 3y agoRelated discussions from yesterday and earlier: Mickey, Disney, and the public domain: A 95-year love triangle Public Domain Day 2024 Is Coming: Here's What to Know Etc https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38826061 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38826061
- ChrisArchitect 3y agoRelated/Dupe discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38830223 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38830223
- ethanwillis 3y agoIf the title is going to be edited from the original. The "enter" here should become "enters"
- fortran77 3y agoMickey used as a trademark to identify a brand is still protected.
- fredgrott 3y agobefore cheering, the trademark is still not public domain and that is probably how Disney will control the work going forward
- ourmandave 3y agoOG Winnie the Pooh is public, but his iconic Red Vest version is still under copyright. https://www.romanolaw.com/winnie-the-pooh-blood-and-honey-is-this-whats-to-come-for-new-public-domain-characters https://www.romanolaw.com/winnie-the-pooh-blood-and-honey-is...
- vlovich123 3y agoBut tigger has now entered the public domain.
- CaptainFever 3y agoThe Wonderful thing about Tiggers Is Tiggers are wonderful things Tops are made out of rubber Their bottoms are made out of springs Their bouncey, trouncey, ouncey, pouncey Fun, fun, fun, fun, fun But the most wonderful thing about Tiggers Is I'm the only one! The last line is especially ironic considering the copyright monopoly situation.
- Terahani 3y ago[flagged]
- peterhajas 3y ago[flagged]
- RaviAhuja 3y ago[flagged]
- akx 3y ago[flagged]
- tuckerconnelly 3y agoCuphead should absolutely add a Mickey Mouse DLC.
- dang 3y agoRelated: January 1, 2024 is Public Domain Day - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38823973 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38823973 - Dec 2023 (15 comments) Copyright for original Mickey Mouse persona to run out 1 January 2024 - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38799484 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38799484 - Dec 2023 (10 comments) Mickey Mouse to Enter Public Domain: "It's Finally Happening'" - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38737164 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38737164 - Dec 2023 (7 comments) Mickey, Disney, and the public domain: A 95-year love triangle - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38678021 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38678021 - Dec 2023 (208 comments) Public Domain Day 2024 Is Coming: Here's What to Know - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38586978 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38586978 - Dec 2023 (6 comments) The Mickey Mouse Copyright Runs Out in 2024 - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36559037 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36559037 - July 2023 (64 comments)
- andrei_says_ 3y agoAnother way to frame this is - Disney has decided to not extend the copyright laws for all Americans and let this happen. The damage of the multiple extensions the company has already forced on all of us are devastating. Multiple times Disney has changed the law to extend copyright provisions and allow it and other corporations to take without giving back, siphoning value out of the public domain for decades upon decades. We have paid a hefty price for their profits, over and over again.