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Process is required to get mediocre talent to churn out reasonable content, which is Steve's references to HP/IBM/etc. Most people think they're putting out gr

Process is required to get mediocre talent to churn out reasonable content, which is Steve's references to HP/IBM/etc. Most people think they're putting out great content. But that's obviously false. One side of Steve's point about letting elite talent do their work presupposes that the talent is elite. Mediocre talent will do much worse work if not bound to process, and Steve was very, very good at rooting out what he thought was mediocre talent.

xp84 3y ago
Insightful, and it’s worth also pointing out that even if 90% of your staff are unquestionably elite, the rest can easily (without process and guidance) make mistakes whose consequences will overshadow everything else you accomplish, for instance by checking in code which causes a catastrophic data breach because your code review policies are casual and optional. Of course, this is a contrived example and even rockstars make mistakes too, but many mistakes are detectable/foreseeable and that’s the kind of thing good process is meant to help with.
hef19898 3y ago
And even elite talent needs to be professional enough to - accept the need guidance - follow some standards and rules to make work reproduceable and understabdable by others - be able to work in teams People tend to ignore the finer points in whatever Steve Jobs said, especially after his return to Apple.
- NickC25 3y ago
  I think this dynamic is different depending on 1. how elite that elite talent actually is (I think of elite athletes here, where one might be elite enough to be on the roster of a top level team, but not elite enough to be the de-facto best on the team - they have a whole bunch of rules to follow, but the best of the best on that team can effectively do as they please); and more importantly, 2. what stage the company is at. A small company with an elite team or elite performer has a whole different set of challenges or structure to deal with versus an elite team or performer at a large established behemoth like Apple.
  - hef19898 3y ago
    Everytime a soccer team, or any other team, is built around one individual, it is only ever as good as said individual. If that is done, no titles are won and no great accomplishments achieved.
    - NickC25 3y ago
      Barcelona's 2008-2012 and 2014-2017 teams would probably disagree - they were built around Messi being able to do whatever he wanted, wherever he wanted....including going on an unbothered stroll for as long as he wanted, whenever he wanted. His whole MO is that he has the unique ability to flip a switch from walking around aimlessly to getting the ball and tearing an entire midfield and defense to shreds in the blink of an eye. I think they did pretty well, didn't they win a few big titles?
      - hef19898 3y ago
        FC Barcelona between 2008-12: - had Pep Guardiola as coach - players like Messi, Xavi, Iniesta But sure, the only super star during that period was Messi... The 2017/18 team had, in addition to Messi, Iniesta, Suarez and Alba But again, of course it was only Messi who carried them. Sure. But even if he did, which he did not, there are only two players like this in his generation, Ronaldo and Messi. That means the vast majority of "rockstar" emoloyees by definition cannot be in that league.
      - RollAHardSix 3y ago
        Xavi, Busquets, Iniesta, and in 2014 Neymar. Messi is the GOAT, but Barca is one of the worst teams to say built to allow one player to do what he wanted. Barca built an entire system and slotted the greatest single-team field of all time players to play that system.
  - thfuran 3y ago
    There's no such thing as a one-man football team.
namdnay 3y ago
What I always say is that McDonalds have laminated recipes pinned to the wall. A Michelin starred restaurant doesn't. Both of these are good processes
- HumblyTossed 3y ago
  Those restaurants have process. It's called prep or set up or mise en place or whatever. But there's process.
- abirch 3y ago
  Depends if you're a line cook or not at the Michelin starred restaurant.
- pas 3y ago
  but, but, but ... they are remarkably similar in execution, the difference is the trade offs they chose. if you pay 200+ bucks per mouth you want something amazing, and that usually means you pick from a fixed menu (interestingly your choices likely be a lot more limited compared to McDonald's), and that restaurant then does the well rehearsed dance and prepares the fancy food for you, with a lot more attention to detail, than what you would find (or need) in a McDonald's fast kitchen. both are examples of 'process' just as coming up with a new interesting-innovative-1-2-3-star entree or coming up with a new McD menu item are examples of a creative design process.
  - ryanisnan 3y ago
    That was the OP’s point…
wolverine876 3y ago
> Mediocre talent will do much worse work if not bound to process Maybe top talent also does worse work sans process, but they get away with it. That's my experience: Many take advantage of their power to disregard process (sometimes as a demonstration of power), which hurts the team, and undermines and creates extra work for others, but the top talent's contributions create a net gain.

xp84 3y ago

Insightful, and it’s worth also pointing out that even if 90% of your staff are unquestionably elite, the rest can easily (without process and guidance) make mistakes whose consequences will overshadow everything else you accomplish, for instance by checking in code which causes a catastrophic data breach because your code review policies are casual and optional. Of course, this is a contrived example and even rockstars make mistakes too, but many mistakes are detectable/foreseeable and that’s the kind of thing good process is meant to help with.

hef19898 3y ago

And even elite talent needs to be professional enough to - accept the need guidance - follow some standards and rules to make work reproduceable and understabdable by others - be able to work in teams People tend to ignore the finer points in whatever Steve Jobs said, especially after his return to Apple.

NickC25 3y ago
I think this dynamic is different depending on 1. how elite that elite talent actually is (I think of elite athletes here, where one might be elite enough to be on the roster of a top level team, but not elite enough to be the de-facto best on the team - they have a whole bunch of rules to follow, but the best of the best on that team can effectively do as they please); and more importantly, 2. what stage the company is at. A small company with an elite team or elite performer has a whole different set of challenges or structure to deal with versus an elite team or performer at a large established behemoth like Apple.
- hef19898 3y ago
  Everytime a soccer team, or any other team, is built around one individual, it is only ever as good as said individual. If that is done, no titles are won and no great accomplishments achieved.
  - NickC25 3y ago
    Barcelona's 2008-2012 and 2014-2017 teams would probably disagree - they were built around Messi being able to do whatever he wanted, wherever he wanted....including going on an unbothered stroll for as long as he wanted, whenever he wanted. His whole MO is that he has the unique ability to flip a switch from walking around aimlessly to getting the ball and tearing an entire midfield and defense to shreds in the blink of an eye. I think they did pretty well, didn't they win a few big titles?
    - hef19898 3y ago
      FC Barcelona between 2008-12: - had Pep Guardiola as coach - players like Messi, Xavi, Iniesta But sure, the only super star during that period was Messi... The 2017/18 team had, in addition to Messi, Iniesta, Suarez and Alba But again, of course it was only Messi who carried them. Sure. But even if he did, which he did not, there are only two players like this in his generation, Ronaldo and Messi. That means the vast majority of "rockstar" emoloyees by definition cannot be in that league.
    - RollAHardSix 3y ago
      Xavi, Busquets, Iniesta, and in 2014 Neymar. Messi is the GOAT, but Barca is one of the worst teams to say built to allow one player to do what he wanted. Barca built an entire system and slotted the greatest single-team field of all time players to play that system.
- thfuran 3y ago
  There's no such thing as a one-man football team.

namdnay 3y ago

What I always say is that McDonalds have laminated recipes pinned to the wall. A Michelin starred restaurant doesn't. Both of these are good processes

HumblyTossed 3y ago
Those restaurants have process. It's called prep or set up or mise en place or whatever. But there's process.
abirch 3y ago
Depends if you're a line cook or not at the Michelin starred restaurant.
pas 3y ago
but, but, but ... they are remarkably similar in execution, the difference is the trade offs they chose. if you pay 200+ bucks per mouth you want something amazing, and that usually means you pick from a fixed menu (interestingly your choices likely be a lot more limited compared to McDonald's), and that restaurant then does the well rehearsed dance and prepares the fancy food for you, with a lot more attention to detail, than what you would find (or need) in a McDonald's fast kitchen. both are examples of 'process' just as coming up with a new interesting-innovative-1-2-3-star entree or coming up with a new McD menu item are examples of a creative design process.
- ryanisnan 3y ago
  That was the OP’s point…

wolverine876 3y ago

> Mediocre talent will do much worse work if not bound to process Maybe top talent also does worse work sans process, but they get away with it. That's my experience: Many take advantage of their power to disregard process (sometimes as a demonstration of power), which hurts the team, and undermines and creates extra work for others, but the top talent's contributions create a net gain.