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I think those figures support the GP's "small, vocal minority" argument. Assuming students carry their debt for 45 years (across their earning lifetime -- my g

by gumby 3y ago

I think those figures support the GP's "small, vocal minority" argument. Assuming students carry their debt for 45 years (across their earning lifetime -- my gf and her ex both carry student debt in their 50s) that's only 1 MM students per annum, which is 5-6% of the number of students any given year. And most of them aren't complaining.

wand3r 3y ago
Working for an international company has really opened my eyes. It's actually fucking insane that someone could be paying off school in their 50s. The cast majority of European schools are in the single digit thousands per semester. The US needs to immediately allow tuition to be discharged in bankruptcy which would at least fix some of the copious problems with our higher education system.
thfuran 3y ago
>Assuming students carry their debt for 45 years I don't think that's common. I especially don't think it was common ~45 years ago.
- recursive 3y ago
  It's a totally bonkers assumption. If it was true, it seems to support a slightly different version of the same point. A 45 year loan on education doesn't seem like the result of a successful system.
  - gumby 3y ago
    Well my n is small. Tenured faculty at Stanford, still paying after 30 y and unlikely to pay off in next decade (note: not in CS, Economics, or business which pay the big bucks). Have heard other faculty discuss this at dinner parties too. I graduated 35 years ago and back then was able to pay my MIT tuition by consulting over the summer + January. CS of course during the AI boom. Doubt that’s possible today. I think the financing of education in the US is absurd and broken, but there is some logic to spreading the financing of an asset over the lifetime of the asset.
    - recursive 3y ago
      I'd estimate that the lifetime of a house is generally longer than the "useful lifetime" of an education. House financing, as far as I've seen, rarely exceeds 30 years. There are probably outliers, just like in education financing.
shkkmo 3y ago
I don't see how ~50% of college graduates currently being in debt for their education is a small minority. I don't know how you got your number but your math seems deeply flawed...
sramam 3y ago
I wonder if the 5-6% is an accurate estimate. Some back-of-the-envelope math: - K-12 enrollment in 2021 was 49.4MM [1] - Assuming even distribution across 13 grades, that's 3.8MM / academic year. - 1MM ~= 25%, though if one factors in that drop-outs increase as years advance, this is conservative. [1] https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=372#PK12-enrollment https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=372#PK12-enroll... [edit] formatting
verve_rat 3y ago
Student loan debt lasts longer than mortgages?

by gumby 3y ago

wand3r 3y ago

Working for an international company has really opened my eyes. It's actually fucking insane that someone could be paying off school in their 50s. The cast majority of European schools are in the single digit thousands per semester. The US needs to immediately allow tuition to be discharged in bankruptcy which would at least fix some of the copious problems with our higher education system.

thfuran 3y ago

>Assuming students carry their debt for 45 years I don't think that's common. I especially don't think it was common ~45 years ago.

recursive 3y ago
It's a totally bonkers assumption. If it was true, it seems to support a slightly different version of the same point. A 45 year loan on education doesn't seem like the result of a successful system.
- gumby 3y ago
  Well my n is small. Tenured faculty at Stanford, still paying after 30 y and unlikely to pay off in next decade (note: not in CS, Economics, or business which pay the big bucks). Have heard other faculty discuss this at dinner parties too. I graduated 35 years ago and back then was able to pay my MIT tuition by consulting over the summer + January. CS of course during the AI boom. Doubt that’s possible today. I think the financing of education in the US is absurd and broken, but there is some logic to spreading the financing of an asset over the lifetime of the asset.
  - recursive 3y ago
    I'd estimate that the lifetime of a house is generally longer than the "useful lifetime" of an education. House financing, as far as I've seen, rarely exceeds 30 years. There are probably outliers, just like in education financing.

shkkmo 3y ago

I don't see how ~50% of college graduates currently being in debt for their education is a small minority. I don't know how you got your number but your math seems deeply flawed...

sramam 3y ago

I wonder if the 5-6% is an accurate estimate. Some back-of-the-envelope math: - K-12 enrollment in 2021 was 49.4MM [1] - Assuming even distribution across 13 grades, that's 3.8MM / academic year. - 1MM ~= 25%, though if one factors in that drop-outs increase as years advance, this is conservative. [1] https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=372#PK12-enrollment https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=372#PK12-enroll... [edit] formatting

verve_rat 3y ago

Student loan debt lasts longer than mortgages?