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>Oh my, no. Exact number is a term that makes a statement about precision and error, and repeatable is not. They are orthogonal terms. Oh my yes. The action of

>Oh my, no. Exact number is a term that makes a statement about precision and error, and repeatable is not. They are orthogonal terms. Oh my yes. The action of "repeating" 100 percent requires the ability to create an exact number. Why don't you try it repeating a 1v value in a circuit where exact numbers can't be made. Your claim simply isn't in line with reality. >Wait is analog compute practical and useful or not? Make up your mind I "made up my mind" in literally the first statement in this thread. I'll quote it: "No there are no practical uses other than speed and energy efficiency" Every response your making is essentially a response to this very first sentence that spawned this entire thread. What's going on here is you "forgot" the point. You're trying to come up with counter examples on how analog computing is useful and all your examples involve speed and energy because you forgot that I caveated my first sentence with speed and energy efficiency. Hopefully you remember now. Additionally as I said earlier you're also mistaken on what digital and analog computing is. I won't repeat myself. Just reread what I wrote earlier. >Those are the primary advantages for all computing hardware developments. No it's not. Memory, robustness, versatility and more all avenues of optimization trade offs that can be made. Analog chips can only be faster and energy efficient. Versatility is where they lose as they have almost none. >"analog chip startup” and see how many companies you can find releasing new analog chips in the last 2 years alone. I use analog chips for my job man. Accelerometers and other mems sensors are things I deal with on the daily. They are everywhere. We are talking about analog computing. For computing neural networks is really the only thing where it can sort of work and it's only done for as I stated before speed and efficiency. A regular GPU is plenty fast in doing most applications right now anyway.

analog31 3y ago
Greetings, fellow traveler. Amusingly, my user name gives me away. ;-) I have a side business that makes a gadget for musical amplification. I don't want to "out" myself by identifying my business, but all of my products are purely analog circuits, used in a largely analog signal chain. Things could change, and they will, but like you say, my analog circuits are simpler and cheaper, and consume less power, than reasonable digital counterparts that I have any hope of designing and sourcing myself. Also, at least in the US, lack of high frequency signals simplifies the regulatory approval process. By day, I design scientific equipment. There's almost always an analog circuit in between each sensor and the ADC. This is partly because each sensor requires a unique physical interface, that a general purpose ADC doesn't provide. The design team needs an "analog person," even if they need only one. Also, analog knowledge is valuable in troubleshooting digital systems, because a person with analog skills tends to understand things like circuits, power supplies, measurements, and so forth.
dahart 3y ago
> The action of “repeating” 100 percent requires the ability to create an exact number. I’m not sure what you’re trying to say here. When you multiply two fp32 values, and the result is rounded, the answer is not exact, even if the inputs were. “An exact number is a value that is known with complete certainty. In other words, an exact number has zero uncertainty and an infinite number of significant figures” https://sciencenotes.org/what-is-an-exact-number-definition-and-examples/ https://sciencenotes.org/what-is-an-exact-number-definition-... If you repeat the process and produce the same rounded number, it’s still not exact and never will be. I didn’t claim analog circuits produce exact numbers, you’re not understanding me and constructing straw men. > For computing neural networks is really the only thing where it can sort of work Disagree.
- corethree 3y ago
  >I’m not sure what you’re trying to say here. When you multiply two fp32 values, and the result is rounded, the answer is not exact, even if the inputs were. I'm not talking about two fp32 values. I'm not talking about multiplying. I'm talking about repeating a value. If a wire was once 2.1234 volts, I turn it off, can i replicate the 2.1234 volts again exactly? No. There's noise. Repeating is NOT multiplying. >If you repeat the process and produce the same rounded number, it’s still not exact and never will be. I didn’t claim analog circuits produce exact numbers, you’re not understanding me and constructing straw men. Dude, you wrote this verbatim: "Oh my, no. Exact number is a term that makes a statement about precision and error, and repeatable is not." You said that "exact" has nothing to do with repeatable. I am Responding to an INCORRECT statement you made. Stay on topic. >Disagree. Sure find me an alternative example. I don't mean what I said "exactly", I mean in it in the sense that the overwhelming majority of cases analog isn't practical. I'm sure there's some obscure niche examples where it's preferrable but the case against it is so overwhelming you're going to having a hard time finding one. Either way you haven't given me a legit example of an analog computer in a legit practical application.
  - analog31 3y ago
    Note: I was agreeing with you, not correcting you. The application I mentioned is pretty darn obscure.

analog31 3y ago

Greetings, fellow traveler. Amusingly, my user name gives me away. ;-) I have a side business that makes a gadget for musical amplification. I don't want to "out" myself by identifying my business, but all of my products are purely analog circuits, used in a largely analog signal chain. Things could change, and they will, but like you say, my analog circuits are simpler and cheaper, and consume less power, than reasonable digital counterparts that I have any hope of designing and sourcing myself. Also, at least in the US, lack of high frequency signals simplifies the regulatory approval process. By day, I design scientific equipment. There's almost always an analog circuit in between each sensor and the ADC. This is partly because each sensor requires a unique physical interface, that a general purpose ADC doesn't provide. The design team needs an "analog person," even if they need only one. Also, analog knowledge is valuable in troubleshooting digital systems, because a person with analog skills tends to understand things like circuits, power supplies, measurements, and so forth.

dahart 3y ago

> The action of “repeating” 100 percent requires the ability to create an exact number. I’m not sure what you’re trying to say here. When you multiply two fp32 values, and the result is rounded, the answer is not exact, even if the inputs were. “An exact number is a value that is known with complete certainty. In other words, an exact number has zero uncertainty and an infinite number of significant figures” https://sciencenotes.org/what-is-an-exact-number-definition-and-examples/ https://sciencenotes.org/what-is-an-exact-number-definition-... If you repeat the process and produce the same rounded number, it’s still not exact and never will be. I didn’t claim analog circuits produce exact numbers, you’re not understanding me and constructing straw men. > For computing neural networks is really the only thing where it can sort of work Disagree.

corethree 3y ago
>I’m not sure what you’re trying to say here. When you multiply two fp32 values, and the result is rounded, the answer is not exact, even if the inputs were. I'm not talking about two fp32 values. I'm not talking about multiplying. I'm talking about repeating a value. If a wire was once 2.1234 volts, I turn it off, can i replicate the 2.1234 volts again exactly? No. There's noise. Repeating is NOT multiplying. >If you repeat the process and produce the same rounded number, it’s still not exact and never will be. I didn’t claim analog circuits produce exact numbers, you’re not understanding me and constructing straw men. Dude, you wrote this verbatim: "Oh my, no. Exact number is a term that makes a statement about precision and error, and repeatable is not." You said that "exact" has nothing to do with repeatable. I am Responding to an INCORRECT statement you made. Stay on topic. >Disagree. Sure find me an alternative example. I don't mean what I said "exactly", I mean in it in the sense that the overwhelming majority of cases analog isn't practical. I'm sure there's some obscure niche examples where it's preferrable but the case against it is so overwhelming you're going to having a hard time finding one. Either way you haven't given me a legit example of an analog computer in a legit practical application.
- analog31 3y ago
  Note: I was agreeing with you, not correcting you. The application I mentioned is pretty darn obscure.