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Low-power is great but running a big RAID long-term without ECC gives me the heebee jeebies! Any good solutions for a similar system but more robust over 5+ ye

Low-power is great but running a big RAID long-term without ECC gives me the heebee jeebies! Any good solutions for a similar system but more robust over 5+ years?

ianai 3y ago
Agree. Didn’t even see ECC discussed. Apparently this board supports ecc with this chip: Supermicro X13SAE W680 LGA1700 ATX Motherboard Costs 550. One option is building around that and having some pcie 4.0 to nvme boards hosting as many nvme drives as needed. Not cheap though but around home affordable.
- ThatMedicIsASpy 3y ago
  You need workstation chipsets to have ECC on intel desktop CPUs. And yes they start at around 500.
  - philjohn 3y ago
    If you go back a few generations, the C246 chipset can be had on boards costing 200, and if you pair it with an i3-9100T you get ECC as well as pretty damn low power usage.
    - ianai 3y ago
      You are limited to pcie 3.0 speeds there though. But good suggestion.
      - philjohn 3y ago
        That's true, but if your goal is low power, that's not necessarily going to be a bottleneck - even if you dedicate all 16 PCIe lanes to NVMe storage it's going to be more than fast enough for 99% of home server needs.
faeriechangling 3y ago
Embedded SOCs like AMDs which are used by Synology etc such as AMD V2000. If you want to step up to being able to serve an entire case or 4U of HDDs, you’re going to need pcie lanes though, in which case w680 with i5-12600k and a single ecc udimm and a SAS HBA in the pcie slot with integrated Ethernet is probably as low wattage as you can get. Shame w680 platform cost is so high, am4/zen2 is cheaper to the point of still being viable. You can also get Xeon, embedded Xeon, am5, am4 (without an iGPU). There’s nothing inherently wrong with running a raid without ecc for 5 years, people do it all the time and things go fine.
- eisa01 3y ago
  Been thinking to just get a Synology with ECC support, but what I find weird is that the CPUs they use are 5+ years old. Feels wrong to buy something like that “new” Same with TrueNas mini
  - cpncrunch 3y ago
    It depends what your requirements are. Ive been using a low end synology box for years as a home dev server and it is more than adequate.
  - faeriechangling 3y ago
    For the most part, these are computers which are meant to stick around through 2-4 upgrade cycles of your other computers. Just doing various low power 24/7 tasks like file serving. You could be like “well that’s stupid, I’m going to make a balls to the wall build server that also serves storage with recent components” but the build server components will become obsolete faster then the storage components, it can lead to incidental complexity to try and run something like windows games on a NAS operating system because you tried to consolidate on one computer, being forced to use things like ECC will compromise absolute performance, you’ll want to have the computer by your desk potentially but also in a closet since it has loud storage, you’re liable to run out of pcie lanes and slots, you want to use open cooling for the high performance components and a closed case for the spinning rust, it’s all a bit awkward. Much simpler is to just treat the NAS as an appliance that serves files, maybe runs a plex server, some surveillance, a weather station, rudimentary monitoring, and home automation. Things for which something like a v2000 is overkill. Then use breeding edge chips in things like cell phones and laptops. Then have the two computers do different jobs. Longer product cycles between processors makes things like support cheaper to maintain for long term periods of time and offer low prices.
tyingq 3y ago
If you're on a budget, a used HP Z-Series workstation supports ECC ram. A bare-bones one is cheap, though the ECC memory can be expensive since it's not the (plentifully available) server type RDIMMs. Not a low-power setup either :)
philjohn 3y ago
That's why I went with an i3-9100T and an Asrock Rack workstation board, ECC support (although UDIMM vs RDIMM)
- a20eac1d 3y ago
  This sounds similar to a build I'm planning. I cannot find the workstation mainboards at a reasonable price though. They start at like 400€ in Europe.
  - philjohn 3y ago
    There's an Asus one that's available as well, the ASUS C246 PRO - it's about 250 GBP. I did build mine 2 years ago, so the 246 motherboards are less available now, the C252 is another option which will take you up to 11th gen Intel.
rpcope1 3y ago
I think the trick is to go with a generation or two old Supermicro motherboard in whatever ATX case you can scrounge up, and then use either a low power Xeon or a Pentium/Celeron. Something like the X11SAE-F or X12SCA-F (or maybe even older) is plenty, though maybe not quite as low power. I still use an X9SCA+-F with some very old Xeon for a NAS and to run some LXC containers. It idles at maybe 20-30W instead of 5, but I've never had any issues with it, and I'm sure it's paid itself off many times over.
- sgarland 3y ago
  Even better, Supermicro will pick up the phone/answer emails, even if you bought a years-old secondhand server. They have the manuals, and are more than happy to help you out. Love my X9 and X11 boards.
j45 3y ago
I would never run a self-hosted nas when a synology/qnap are available as a dedicated appliance for around the same price. The hardware is much more purpose equipped to store files long term and not the 2-3 years between consumer SSDs' It's not to say self-hosting storage can't or shouldn't be done, its just about how many recoveries and transitions have you been through, because it's not an if, but a when.
- justinsaccount 3y ago
  > The hardware is much more purpose equipped to store files long term What hardware would that be, specifically? The low end embedded platforms that don't even support ECC? > how many recoveries and transitions have you been through 3 or 4, at this point, using the same 2 disk zfs mirror upgraded from 1TB to 3TB to 10TB.
  - j45 3y ago
    Qnap and synology among other have plenty of reasonably priced ecc enabled equipment. I’m not sure where low end comes from, most people start with a Pi, old computer or something, and grow from there. Storage like a home appliance is a good thing.
- dbeley 3y ago
  The hardware is basically the same as self-hosted NAS, the motherboard could even be of a lower quality. The software though is closed source and most consumer NAS only get support for 4-5 years which is outrageous.
  - dannyw 3y ago
    You're not buying from the right brand. Synology supports their hardware for about 10 years since release. They are the "Apple"-like of NAS.
    - j45 3y ago
      I think the average # of years between buying a NAS could easily be 5-10 years.
jhot 3y ago
I'm running truenas on a used e3 1245 v5 ($30 on ebay) and an Asus workstation Mobo with 32 GB ECC and 4 spinning drives. Not sure individually, but the nas along with a i5 12400 compute machine, router, and switch use 100W from the wall during baseline operation (~30 containers). I'd consider that hugely efficient compared to some older workstations I've used as home servers.
- NorwegianDude 3y ago
  I've been running a E3-1230v3 for over 10 years now. With 32GN ECC, 3 SSDs and 4 HDD and separate port for IPMI I'm averaging 35 W from the wall with a light load. Just ordered a Ryzen 7900 yesterday, and I guess the power consumption will be slightly higher for that one.

Low-power is great but running a big RAID long-term without ECC gives me the heebee jeebies! Any good solutions for a similar system but more robust over 5+ years?

ianai 3y ago

Agree. Didn’t even see ECC discussed. Apparently this board supports ecc with this chip: Supermicro X13SAE W680 LGA1700 ATX Motherboard Costs 550. One option is building around that and having some pcie 4.0 to nvme boards hosting as many nvme drives as needed. Not cheap though but around home affordable.

ThatMedicIsASpy 3y ago
You need workstation chipsets to have ECC on intel desktop CPUs. And yes they start at around 500.
- philjohn 3y ago
  If you go back a few generations, the C246 chipset can be had on boards costing 200, and if you pair it with an i3-9100T you get ECC as well as pretty damn low power usage.
  - ianai 3y ago
    You are limited to pcie 3.0 speeds there though. But good suggestion.
    - philjohn 3y ago
      That's true, but if your goal is low power, that's not necessarily going to be a bottleneck - even if you dedicate all 16 PCIe lanes to NVMe storage it's going to be more than fast enough for 99% of home server needs.

faeriechangling 3y ago

Embedded SOCs like AMDs which are used by Synology etc such as AMD V2000. If you want to step up to being able to serve an entire case or 4U of HDDs, you’re going to need pcie lanes though, in which case w680 with i5-12600k and a single ecc udimm and a SAS HBA in the pcie slot with integrated Ethernet is probably as low wattage as you can get. Shame w680 platform cost is so high, am4/zen2 is cheaper to the point of still being viable. You can also get Xeon, embedded Xeon, am5, am4 (without an iGPU). There’s nothing inherently wrong with running a raid without ecc for 5 years, people do it all the time and things go fine.

eisa01 3y ago
Been thinking to just get a Synology with ECC support, but what I find weird is that the CPUs they use are 5+ years old. Feels wrong to buy something like that “new” Same with TrueNas mini
- cpncrunch 3y ago
  It depends what your requirements are. Ive been using a low end synology box for years as a home dev server and it is more than adequate.
- faeriechangling 3y ago
  For the most part, these are computers which are meant to stick around through 2-4 upgrade cycles of your other computers. Just doing various low power 24/7 tasks like file serving. You could be like “well that’s stupid, I’m going to make a balls to the wall build server that also serves storage with recent components” but the build server components will become obsolete faster then the storage components, it can lead to incidental complexity to try and run something like windows games on a NAS operating system because you tried to consolidate on one computer, being forced to use things like ECC will compromise absolute performance, you’ll want to have the computer by your desk potentially but also in a closet since it has loud storage, you’re liable to run out of pcie lanes and slots, you want to use open cooling for the high performance components and a closed case for the spinning rust, it’s all a bit awkward. Much simpler is to just treat the NAS as an appliance that serves files, maybe runs a plex server, some surveillance, a weather station, rudimentary monitoring, and home automation. Things for which something like a v2000 is overkill. Then use breeding edge chips in things like cell phones and laptops. Then have the two computers do different jobs. Longer product cycles between processors makes things like support cheaper to maintain for long term periods of time and offer low prices.

tyingq 3y ago

If you're on a budget, a used HP Z-Series workstation supports ECC ram. A bare-bones one is cheap, though the ECC memory can be expensive since it's not the (plentifully available) server type RDIMMs. Not a low-power setup either :)

philjohn 3y ago

That's why I went with an i3-9100T and an Asrock Rack workstation board, ECC support (although UDIMM vs RDIMM)

a20eac1d 3y ago
This sounds similar to a build I'm planning. I cannot find the workstation mainboards at a reasonable price though. They start at like 400€ in Europe.
- philjohn 3y ago
  There's an Asus one that's available as well, the ASUS C246 PRO - it's about 250 GBP. I did build mine 2 years ago, so the 246 motherboards are less available now, the C252 is another option which will take you up to 11th gen Intel.

rpcope1 3y ago

I think the trick is to go with a generation or two old Supermicro motherboard in whatever ATX case you can scrounge up, and then use either a low power Xeon or a Pentium/Celeron. Something like the X11SAE-F or X12SCA-F (or maybe even older) is plenty, though maybe not quite as low power. I still use an X9SCA+-F with some very old Xeon for a NAS and to run some LXC containers. It idles at maybe 20-30W instead of 5, but I've never had any issues with it, and I'm sure it's paid itself off many times over.

sgarland 3y ago
Even better, Supermicro will pick up the phone/answer emails, even if you bought a years-old secondhand server. They have the manuals, and are more than happy to help you out. Love my X9 and X11 boards.

j45 3y ago

I would never run a self-hosted nas when a synology/qnap are available as a dedicated appliance for around the same price. The hardware is much more purpose equipped to store files long term and not the 2-3 years between consumer SSDs' It's not to say self-hosting storage can't or shouldn't be done, its just about how many recoveries and transitions have you been through, because it's not an if, but a when.

justinsaccount 3y ago
> The hardware is much more purpose equipped to store files long term What hardware would that be, specifically? The low end embedded platforms that don't even support ECC? > how many recoveries and transitions have you been through 3 or 4, at this point, using the same 2 disk zfs mirror upgraded from 1TB to 3TB to 10TB.
- j45 3y ago
  Qnap and synology among other have plenty of reasonably priced ecc enabled equipment. I’m not sure where low end comes from, most people start with a Pi, old computer or something, and grow from there. Storage like a home appliance is a good thing.
dbeley 3y ago
The hardware is basically the same as self-hosted NAS, the motherboard could even be of a lower quality. The software though is closed source and most consumer NAS only get support for 4-5 years which is outrageous.
- dannyw 3y ago
  You're not buying from the right brand. Synology supports their hardware for about 10 years since release. They are the "Apple"-like of NAS.
  - j45 3y ago
    I think the average # of years between buying a NAS could easily be 5-10 years.

jhot 3y ago

I'm running truenas on a used e3 1245 v5 ($30 on ebay) and an Asus workstation Mobo with 32 GB ECC and 4 spinning drives. Not sure individually, but the nas along with a i5 12400 compute machine, router, and switch use 100W from the wall during baseline operation (~30 containers). I'd consider that hugely efficient compared to some older workstations I've used as home servers.

NorwegianDude 3y ago
I've been running a E3-1230v3 for over 10 years now. With 32GN ECC, 3 SSDs and 4 HDD and separate port for IPMI I'm averaging 35 W from the wall with a light load. Just ordered a Ryzen 7900 yesterday, and I guess the power consumption will be slightly higher for that one.