6 ms·

https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/mutter/-/merge_requests/1154 https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/mutter/-/merge_requests/1154 You can install it upon Arch from AUR.

https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/mutter/-/merge_requests/1154 https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/mutter/-/merge_requests/1154 You can install it upon Arch from AUR. Putting that aside: Windows users always find a reason not to switch to Linux because some missing feature. In two years? There will be another new feature or game on Windows. I remember people insisting on using Windows because it support their „3D-Shutter glasses“ or their card from Nvidia. Either you want use Linux or not :) Why are many features initially only available on Windows? First. That is wrong. Important features like cgroups, namespace and containers/Flatpak where novelly developed upon Linux. Second? MBAs only look at past numbers. So Windows often get traditional Windows stuff first. You make guess it, innovative companies care about what will be possible in future. Valve for example. The MBA style thinking is also in many consumers. Still buying Nvidia? Because they were faster in the paper sheet? I prefer the cards which works well with Linux, so AMD or Intel. Frames actually generated are more worth than problems with proprietary drivers. PS: Linux has maybe won the war against drives. Seems like Nvidia open most stuff slowly and feature land in the nouveau-module or mesa. A decade to late. I’m already in Team AMD ;)

hhh 3y ago
I don’t want to tweak stuff for a week to get a comparable experience playing games to a fresh W11 install.
- developerDan 3y ago
  Why don’t people like Linux? Because it takes 8 bloody commands to do something as simple as add a new drive whereas Windows you can just open disk utility and format. I bounced off Linux a few weeks ago over this. It’s for people who want to tinker more than actually use the system.
  - COGlory 3y ago
    I've literally never used commands to do anything with a disk. I open KDE Partition Manager and do everything in a really nice GUI. `
  - accelbred 3y ago
    On Gnome, you open the disk manager. You click format. In fact a lot of things are easier. On windows, you need a third party tool to install an iso onto a disk. On Gnome, you open disk manager, right click disk, click restore from image.
  - bisby 3y ago
    That's untrue though. Linux has a disk utility (I use gparted personally). And you can surely do it on the command line in a single command. On Linux you could automate that task. How would you propose automating "open disk utility and click a few buttons" on Windows? This is less of a "Linux can't" issue and more of a "I quickly know how to do it on Windows after years of experience and I don't know how to do it on Linux." Linux not being identical to Windows isn't a flaw. No one blames you for not wanting to relearn, but pretending like Linux is bad because your Windows muscle memory doesn't apply is nonsense.
    - developerDan 3y ago
      When I Googled how to complete this task I came across multiple results all of which suggesting to use a string of CLI commands. GParted was suggested in some of the results but it wasn’t installed by default on the distro I was recommended (Lubuntu) so I had to punch in even more commands to get it installed. Then after creating the partition it was still unusable until I mounted the drive (which wasn’t clear until after Googling why I can’t use it). Mounting required yet more commands. I did a cursory glance at the GUI buttons on GParted and didn’t see a simple mounting option. If you can’t mount in GParted then my claim still stands that it’s much more effort, and obscure, than Windows which automatically “mounts” the drive so to speak, when you create the partition.
      - ParetoOptimal 3y ago
        > GParted was suggested in some of the results but it wasn’t installed by default on the distro I was recommended (Lubuntu You got a less than stellar recommendation based on your desire for parity with ease of use with windows. Lubuntu is a more niche distro aimed at lower resource usage at the expense of the ease of use you are looking for. If you had installed KDE, you'd likely have explored the start menu and found gparted or typed 'disk' into search and found gparted.
      - iknowstuff 3y ago
        I swear the biggest problem with linux is the nerds pushing newbies towards esoteric garbage distros instead of established and widely supported ones like straight up Ubuntu with Gnome.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - freedomben 3y ago
    You bounced quickly then without trying very hard. Gnome comes with a GUI disk utility tool pre-installed that is easy enough for a Windows user ;-)
    - developerDan 3y ago
      I was recommended a distro that doesn’t use Gnome (Lubuntu). The system I was working with is very old and some light research made it seem like Gnome is pretty resource heavy.
      - ParetoOptimal 3y ago
        I think a lot of times recommending Lubuntu or other niche distros to first-time linux users is a mistake. Instead one should recommend using KDE or Gnome and turning down all of the graphical settings if needed to improve performance.
        mattl 3y ago
        I think it comes from the idea that you should install Linux to get more time out of aging hardware.
        ParetoOptimal 3y ago
        Yeah, but for first time users I maintain it'd be better to risk potential slowness than "fast but unacceptable user experience".
        mattl 3y ago
        Fully agree. I don’t really know what the user groups are doing these days? Are installfests still a thing?
      - chronogram 3y ago
        How old are we talking about? 10+ years ago I was running Gnome3 on decent hardware of the time, and everything was snappy[0]. Now all the OS software got faster since then, so everything is still snappy on that thing despite that hardware now being old. Similarly that laptop came with Windows 7 and that was snappy, and the Windows 2021 LTSC on it is also snappy[0]. 0: I care about responsiveness, so I've always disabled animations on every device, so I have no experience if some animations can run at 60fps on some hardware and 30fps on others.
- LegitShady 3y ago
  to be fair a fresh W11 install still doesn't have a usable taskbar or start menu - you have to install explorer patcher to get those back.
  - brnt 3y ago
    Looking back, that may have been my switching point: when setting up my distro of choice took less time then windows after a fresh install. Life without package managers, even now that there is chocolatey, is just unnecessary pain. And as a DE, windows had no edge over something like KDE.
    - ho_schi 3y ago
      An operating-system without a package-manager is not maintable. It hard to install, update or remove software. The validation of the system isn’t possible. Aside from the missing security. On Windows changing a setting has become a horrible task for me. Where is it? Why does the search doesn’t find it? Should I try to find the Win32-Dialog from Win2k or is this setting in WinUI3 the same? Why I have to sit in front of an installer wizard an „click through it“? On Steam I can do a file check of a game and it verifies its integrity? My wish. All package-managers on Linux should provide that :)
      - NekkoDroid 3y ago
        I haven't exactly ever tested myself this, but apparently most of the major distros have a way to do that: https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Pacman/Rosetta#Verification_and_repair https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Pacman/Rosetta#Verification...
  - hhh 3y ago
    both are perfectly usable
- ho_schi 3y ago
  I want tweak stuff to make it fit better for me. I don’t want tweak stuff to get it initial usable. Likewise the rationale why people buy the Steamdeck. Other than Windows it just works. And it is tweakable.
Arnavion 3y ago
>First. That is wrong. Important features like cgroups, namespace and containers/Flatpak where novelly developed upon Linux. I get your overall point, but the first "process containers" code that later became cgroups was merged to the kernel in 2007. Windows came out with the Job Objects API in Windows 2000 (NT 5.0) in 2000.
- jxf 3y ago
  IMO, the Job Objects API was not really suitable to use in production settings; it had many weird edge cases, so although it looked similar to cgroups it often broke in strange and unpredictable ways.
FirmwareBurner 3y ago
>Windows users always find a reason not to switch to Linux because some missing feature. Because the OS is a tool, not a religious/political statement. Therefore I'll use it if it works the way I need it and it solves my problem, or not use it if it doesn't work the way I want it and ends up creating more problems for me than it solves. Simple.
luma 3y ago
You're using the phrase "MBA thinking" to mean "making decisions based on your personal use case and identifying solutions which match". I'm not sure how this is a bad thing. I don't run Linux to run games because Windows is a better supported platform for running games. I'm not "looking at past numbers", I'm looking at the situation in front of me as it exists, setting aside my personal feeling on what might have been and instead focusing on what actually exists, today, for the problem I am looking to solve today.
- ho_schi 3y ago
  „Today“…MBA-Thinking. I don’t want a huge problem tomorrow.
  - luma 3y ago
    So you trade that for even larger problems today? You do you but I just want to play some games.

hhh 3y ago

I don’t want to tweak stuff for a week to get a comparable experience playing games to a fresh W11 install.

developerDan 3y ago
Why don’t people like Linux? Because it takes 8 bloody commands to do something as simple as add a new drive whereas Windows you can just open disk utility and format. I bounced off Linux a few weeks ago over this. It’s for people who want to tinker more than actually use the system.
- COGlory 3y ago
  I've literally never used commands to do anything with a disk. I open KDE Partition Manager and do everything in a really nice GUI. `
- accelbred 3y ago
  On Gnome, you open the disk manager. You click format. In fact a lot of things are easier. On windows, you need a third party tool to install an iso onto a disk. On Gnome, you open disk manager, right click disk, click restore from image.
- bisby 3y ago
  That's untrue though. Linux has a disk utility (I use gparted personally). And you can surely do it on the command line in a single command. On Linux you could automate that task. How would you propose automating "open disk utility and click a few buttons" on Windows? This is less of a "Linux can't" issue and more of a "I quickly know how to do it on Windows after years of experience and I don't know how to do it on Linux." Linux not being identical to Windows isn't a flaw. No one blames you for not wanting to relearn, but pretending like Linux is bad because your Windows muscle memory doesn't apply is nonsense.
  - developerDan 3y ago
    When I Googled how to complete this task I came across multiple results all of which suggesting to use a string of CLI commands. GParted was suggested in some of the results but it wasn’t installed by default on the distro I was recommended (Lubuntu) so I had to punch in even more commands to get it installed. Then after creating the partition it was still unusable until I mounted the drive (which wasn’t clear until after Googling why I can’t use it). Mounting required yet more commands. I did a cursory glance at the GUI buttons on GParted and didn’t see a simple mounting option. If you can’t mount in GParted then my claim still stands that it’s much more effort, and obscure, than Windows which automatically “mounts” the drive so to speak, when you create the partition.
    - ParetoOptimal 3y ago
      > GParted was suggested in some of the results but it wasn’t installed by default on the distro I was recommended (Lubuntu You got a less than stellar recommendation based on your desire for parity with ease of use with windows. Lubuntu is a more niche distro aimed at lower resource usage at the expense of the ease of use you are looking for. If you had installed KDE, you'd likely have explored the start menu and found gparted or typed 'disk' into search and found gparted.
    - iknowstuff 3y ago
      I swear the biggest problem with linux is the nerds pushing newbies towards esoteric garbage distros instead of established and widely supported ones like straight up Ubuntu with Gnome.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- freedomben 3y ago
  You bounced quickly then without trying very hard. Gnome comes with a GUI disk utility tool pre-installed that is easy enough for a Windows user ;-)
  - developerDan 3y ago
    I was recommended a distro that doesn’t use Gnome (Lubuntu). The system I was working with is very old and some light research made it seem like Gnome is pretty resource heavy.
    - ParetoOptimal 3y ago
      I think a lot of times recommending Lubuntu or other niche distros to first-time linux users is a mistake. Instead one should recommend using KDE or Gnome and turning down all of the graphical settings if needed to improve performance.
      - mattl 3y ago
        I think it comes from the idea that you should install Linux to get more time out of aging hardware.
        ParetoOptimal 3y ago
        Yeah, but for first time users I maintain it'd be better to risk potential slowness than "fast but unacceptable user experience".
        mattl 3y ago
        Fully agree. I don’t really know what the user groups are doing these days? Are installfests still a thing?
    - chronogram 3y ago
      How old are we talking about? 10+ years ago I was running Gnome3 on decent hardware of the time, and everything was snappy[0]. Now all the OS software got faster since then, so everything is still snappy on that thing despite that hardware now being old. Similarly that laptop came with Windows 7 and that was snappy, and the Windows 2021 LTSC on it is also snappy[0]. 0: I care about responsiveness, so I've always disabled animations on every device, so I have no experience if some animations can run at 60fps on some hardware and 30fps on others.
LegitShady 3y ago
to be fair a fresh W11 install still doesn't have a usable taskbar or start menu - you have to install explorer patcher to get those back.
- brnt 3y ago
  Looking back, that may have been my switching point: when setting up my distro of choice took less time then windows after a fresh install. Life without package managers, even now that there is chocolatey, is just unnecessary pain. And as a DE, windows had no edge over something like KDE.
  - ho_schi 3y ago
    An operating-system without a package-manager is not maintable. It hard to install, update or remove software. The validation of the system isn’t possible. Aside from the missing security. On Windows changing a setting has become a horrible task for me. Where is it? Why does the search doesn’t find it? Should I try to find the Win32-Dialog from Win2k or is this setting in WinUI3 the same? Why I have to sit in front of an installer wizard an „click through it“? On Steam I can do a file check of a game and it verifies its integrity? My wish. All package-managers on Linux should provide that :)
    - NekkoDroid 3y ago
      I haven't exactly ever tested myself this, but apparently most of the major distros have a way to do that: https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Pacman/Rosetta#Verification_and_repair https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Pacman/Rosetta#Verification...
- hhh 3y ago
  both are perfectly usable
ho_schi 3y ago
I want tweak stuff to make it fit better for me. I don’t want tweak stuff to get it initial usable. Likewise the rationale why people buy the Steamdeck. Other than Windows it just works. And it is tweakable.

Arnavion 3y ago

>First. That is wrong. Important features like cgroups, namespace and containers/Flatpak where novelly developed upon Linux. I get your overall point, but the first "process containers" code that later became cgroups was merged to the kernel in 2007. Windows came out with the Job Objects API in Windows 2000 (NT 5.0) in 2000.

jxf 3y ago
IMO, the Job Objects API was not really suitable to use in production settings; it had many weird edge cases, so although it looked similar to cgroups it often broke in strange and unpredictable ways.

FirmwareBurner 3y ago

>Windows users always find a reason not to switch to Linux because some missing feature. Because the OS is a tool, not a religious/political statement. Therefore I'll use it if it works the way I need it and it solves my problem, or not use it if it doesn't work the way I want it and ends up creating more problems for me than it solves. Simple.

luma 3y ago

You're using the phrase "MBA thinking" to mean "making decisions based on your personal use case and identifying solutions which match". I'm not sure how this is a bad thing. I don't run Linux to run games because Windows is a better supported platform for running games. I'm not "looking at past numbers", I'm looking at the situation in front of me as it exists, setting aside my personal feeling on what might have been and instead focusing on what actually exists, today, for the problem I am looking to solve today.

ho_schi 3y ago
„Today“…MBA-Thinking. I don’t want a huge problem tomorrow.
- luma 3y ago
  So you trade that for even larger problems today? You do you but I just want to play some games.