5 ms·

It's "I have nothing to hide" until suddenly you do. But by then it's too late to do anything about it.

anonym29 3y ago
And yet every single person who says this continues to lock the door when they sit down to use the restroom in public. They're doing nothing wrong. They have nothing to hide. Everyone knows what they're up to. And yet, they have this strange, inexplicable desire for privacy in spite of those three things!
- deaddodo 3y ago
  > They have nothing to hide. Most people would take umbrage with this portion of your argument. They clearly do have something to hide; whether it's from shame, embarrassment or politeness.
- pests 3y ago
  It's just social expectations. No one wants to see it. Please don't allow yourself to be exposed to others, might even be children attempting to open the bathroom. Yet, walk into a gym changing room and you'll see balls swinging everywhere. They've done nothing wrong, nothing to hide, everyone knows what they are doing - but yet, they don't care about privacy?! Social expectations set privacy expectations. People conform to those expectations outside of their own desires or wants for privacy / non-privacy.
  - anonym29 3y ago
    > Yet, walk into a gym changing room and you'll see balls swinging everywhere. They've done nothing wrong, nothing to hide, everyone knows what they are doing - but yet, they don't care about privacy?! As someone who's been to YMCA locker rooms in the 1990s, 2000s, 2010s, and in the 2020s, this is increasingly only true of the elderly. I don't think I've seen anyone under 30 walking around outside of the showering area without a towel for years now. Another important distinction is that gymgoers in the changing rooms are free to choose whether to exercise their right to privacy, or to waive it, and there is not a corporation with a 9/10/11 digit valuation with entire teams of engineers dedicated to annihilating their privacy in pursuit of monetization. What carmakers are doing to the privacy of end users is not terribly dissimilar from gyms prohibiting the use of towels / bathing suits in changing rooms, punishable with loss of contractual rights you had as a customer of the gym for the first violation, like getting financial recourse if the gym fails to abide by their contractual duties. And yet almost nobody seems to think this is enough of a problem to stop going to that gym, which of course will only encourage the gym to roll out even more bizarre, draconian infringements on the privacy and freedom of their clientele.
jevoten 3y ago
You also rely on many people being able to hide things if you want a pleasant society - journalists, whistleblowers, activists, anyone doing politically sensitive work (e.g. Tor or Signal developers, labor organizers, even small businesses trying to enter established markets) that could be destroyed by a smear campaign. Last but not least, any new political party can be crushed by information asymmetry - if every minor indiscretion of their members is outed, while the ruling parties can keep their own sins hidden, thanks to a friendly intelligence apparatus, no new party will ever upset the status quo. It also means the old parties will be compelled to remain friendly with said intelligence apparatus (wonder why section 702 of FISA got extended again [1]?) In other words, even if you personally somehow go your entire life without having to hide a single thing, unless others can hide things, you will one day wake-up under tyranny. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38799561 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38799561
swells34 3y ago
Honestly, the "I have nothing to hide" line is flawed in itself, regardless of whether you actually do or not. With enough data about someone, a narrative can be built that they are guilty of something. And even if it is finally determined that they did nothing wrong, it is a massive waste of time and energy to prove that. See "railroading", the US Law Enforcement's greatest national past time.
- genewitch 3y ago
  "Three felonies a day"
- Nevermark 3y ago
  AND: data on someone provides a the means to coerce them in hard to identify ways. Would you reveal everything about your financial, work and personal lives to someone you were in a business negotiation with? Just because they wouldn't do anything "illegal" with it? Information about each of us is leverage. Even when used legally, it gives away our power over our lives to others, to use against us.
Tanoc 3y ago
"I have nothing to hide" is a horrible statement and I wish people would stop using it as a defense for why they allow invasions of privacy and breaches of personal rights. Saying you have nothing to hide isn't an absolution of any perceived guilt, it's a forfeit of your personage and control. For example, you drive the same way anybody else does on the road, you "have nothing to hide" in that sense, but you still wouldn't want your insurance getting up to the minute data on where you're driving and how because that places the control of your finances in their hands. You cook your breakfast the same way everyone else does, you have "nothing to hide" in that case, but you still wouldn't want your neighbours to be able to see a livestream every morning of you cooking without you knowing.
bobbylarrybobby 3y ago
Very simple response to “I have nothing to hide”: “ok then, mind if I go through your emails and text messages?”
rrr_oh_man 3y ago
Best response that worked for me so far: "Cool, can I install a camera in your toilet? Or do you have something to hide?"

And yet every single person who says this continues to lock the door when they sit down to use the restroom in public. They're doing nothing wrong. They have nothing to hide. Everyone knows what they're up to. And yet, they have this strange, inexplicable desire for privacy in spite of those three things!

deaddodo 3y ago
> They have nothing to hide. Most people would take umbrage with this portion of your argument. They clearly do have something to hide; whether it's from shame, embarrassment or politeness.
pests 3y ago
It's just social expectations. No one wants to see it. Please don't allow yourself to be exposed to others, might even be children attempting to open the bathroom. Yet, walk into a gym changing room and you'll see balls swinging everywhere. They've done nothing wrong, nothing to hide, everyone knows what they are doing - but yet, they don't care about privacy?! Social expectations set privacy expectations. People conform to those expectations outside of their own desires or wants for privacy / non-privacy.
- anonym29 3y ago
  > Yet, walk into a gym changing room and you'll see balls swinging everywhere. They've done nothing wrong, nothing to hide, everyone knows what they are doing - but yet, they don't care about privacy?! As someone who's been to YMCA locker rooms in the 1990s, 2000s, 2010s, and in the 2020s, this is increasingly only true of the elderly. I don't think I've seen anyone under 30 walking around outside of the showering area without a towel for years now. Another important distinction is that gymgoers in the changing rooms are free to choose whether to exercise their right to privacy, or to waive it, and there is not a corporation with a 9/10/11 digit valuation with entire teams of engineers dedicated to annihilating their privacy in pursuit of monetization. What carmakers are doing to the privacy of end users is not terribly dissimilar from gyms prohibiting the use of towels / bathing suits in changing rooms, punishable with loss of contractual rights you had as a customer of the gym for the first violation, like getting financial recourse if the gym fails to abide by their contractual duties. And yet almost nobody seems to think this is enough of a problem to stop going to that gym, which of course will only encourage the gym to roll out even more bizarre, draconian infringements on the privacy and freedom of their clientele.

jevoten 3y ago

You also rely on many people being able to hide things if you want a pleasant society - journalists, whistleblowers, activists, anyone doing politically sensitive work (e.g. Tor or Signal developers, labor organizers, even small businesses trying to enter established markets) that could be destroyed by a smear campaign. Last but not least, any new political party can be crushed by information asymmetry - if every minor indiscretion of their members is outed, while the ruling parties can keep their own sins hidden, thanks to a friendly intelligence apparatus, no new party will ever upset the status quo. It also means the old parties will be compelled to remain friendly with said intelligence apparatus (wonder why section 702 of FISA got extended again [1]?) In other words, even if you personally somehow go your entire life without having to hide a single thing, unless others can hide things, you will one day wake-up under tyranny. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38799561 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38799561

swells34 3y ago

Honestly, the "I have nothing to hide" line is flawed in itself, regardless of whether you actually do or not. With enough data about someone, a narrative can be built that they are guilty of something. And even if it is finally determined that they did nothing wrong, it is a massive waste of time and energy to prove that. See "railroading", the US Law Enforcement's greatest national past time.

genewitch 3y ago
"Three felonies a day"
Nevermark 3y ago
AND: data on someone provides a the means to coerce them in hard to identify ways. Would you reveal everything about your financial, work and personal lives to someone you were in a business negotiation with? Just because they wouldn't do anything "illegal" with it? Information about each of us is leverage. Even when used legally, it gives away our power over our lives to others, to use against us.

Tanoc 3y ago

"I have nothing to hide" is a horrible statement and I wish people would stop using it as a defense for why they allow invasions of privacy and breaches of personal rights. Saying you have nothing to hide isn't an absolution of any perceived guilt, it's a forfeit of your personage and control. For example, you drive the same way anybody else does on the road, you "have nothing to hide" in that sense, but you still wouldn't want your insurance getting up to the minute data on where you're driving and how because that places the control of your finances in their hands. You cook your breakfast the same way everyone else does, you have "nothing to hide" in that case, but you still wouldn't want your neighbours to be able to see a livestream every morning of you cooking without you knowing.

bobbylarrybobby 3y ago

Very simple response to “I have nothing to hide”: “ok then, mind if I go through your emails and text messages?”

rrr_oh_man 3y ago

Best response that worked for me so far: "Cool, can I install a camera in your toilet? Or do you have something to hide?"