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Tracking a car also has value for finding it after losing it in a parking garage, determining whether it's been towed or stolen, rescue help in case it's in a m
by kyledrake 3y ago
Tracking a car also has value for finding it after losing it in a parking garage, determining whether it's been towed or stolen, rescue help in case it's in a more remote area during a blizzard, etc. There's more legitimate use cases here than illegitimate ones, and its odd to to ignore all of them and presume this tech is almost exclusively for stalking like this article is implying.
Auto theft in a lot of places in the United States has spiked so much since COVID that being able to track your car is critical infrastructure at this point*, particular if you drive the cars that are easy to steal right now (I have a friend that had his car stolen 3 times). I think being able to steal a car with a USB cable is a much worse problem for car manufacturers to deal with right now and I really hope we don't hand criminals yet another theft tool (on top of their unlimited supply of dangerous weapons) by eliminating car trackers by law or self immolation.
* https://www.axios.com/2023/07/20/car-thefts-2023-kia-hyundai-crime-data https://www.axios.com/2023/07/20/car-thefts-2023-kia-hyundai...
- hellcow 3y ago> Crime in a lot of places in the United States is so bad right now Citation needed. Crime rates have been falling for decades. [1] I have no doubt there are individual areas with high crime, and for those isolated pockets, people could opt-in to buying and installing tracking devices on their vehicles. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_the_United_States https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_the_United_States
- kyledrake 3y agoOne of many articles on the topic https://www.axios.com/2023/07/20/car-thefts-2023-kia-hyundai-crime-data https://www.axios.com/2023/07/20/car-thefts-2023-kia-hyundai...
- pc86 3y agoProperty crime as a whole is decreasing even when accounting for this spike of a very specific sub-sub-category. All this does is prove that other crimes are decreasing so much that this largely irrelevant sub-sub-category (most people do not own Kias or Hyundais as they're pretty terrible vehicles) increase is more than completely wiped out.
- rrr_oh_man 3y ago> people do not own Kias or Hyundais as they're pretty terrible vehicles It seems to me that both Kia and Hyundai are in the Top 10 of new car sales in the US. https://www.carlogos.org/popular-car-brands/ https://www.carlogos.org/popular-car-brands/ From my anecdotal experience, Hyundais are excellent rental cars. And pretty popular as used cars here in Europe, too.
- sbuk 3y agoProperty theft has been on the decline while the use of device tracking technologies, among other simple deterrents and measures, have simultaneously been increasing. Correlation?
- speed_spread 3y agoThat could correlate with a number of things, including the elimination of lead-based additives in gasoline, increasing the general IQ.
- sbuk 3y agoFair. However, applying Occam’s razor, I’d suggest tracking has more impact than the removal of lead from fuels.
- speed_spread 3y agoConsidering the lack of interest by police in following stolen tracked vehicles and arresting car thiefs, I'm not so sure that the tech is a significant factor in crime reduction.
- rrr_oh_man 3y agoThanks for reminding me of the heartbreaking loss of my iPhone 4 that ended up on another continent.
- AlexandrB 3y agoEven with Hyundai's idiocy, vehicle thefts last year were lower than they were in 2008[1] and lower than at any time in the 90s or 80s. Decades where being able to track your car with GPS was a sci-fi fantasy. A lot of the recent fear of crime feels like it's being driven by sensationalist reporting and overstating of the facts. E.g. "crime has doubled" has a very different meaning when you realize we were at record low crime rates just a few years ago. [1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/191216/reported-motor-vehicle-theft-rate-in-the-us-since-1990/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/191216/reported-motor-ve...
- kyledrake 3y agohttps://www.axios.com/2023/07/20/car-thefts-2023-kia-hyundai-crime-data https://www.axios.com/2023/07/20/car-thefts-2023-kia-hyundai...
- burkaman 3y agoNote that this is only based on data from 32 cities, and it's not clear to me how they were chosen. Here are the cities: https://counciloncj.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/Figure20-1536x1128.png https://counciloncj.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/Figure20-...
- louthy 3y ago> … a relationship you should probably end immediately if they are doing this … > … tiny handful of creepy boyfriends … Way to downplay the very serious issue of domestic abuse and coercive control. “However, at Refuge we’re keenly aware that technology is often used by perpetrators of domestic abuse to further isolate, intimidate and stalk their partners from their support networks, making it even more difficult for women to escape their abusers“ [1] [1] https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/may/12/tech-playing-growing-role-in-uk-domestic-abuse-cases-experts-say https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/may/12/tech-playing...
- robertlagrant 3y ago> Way to downplay the very serious issue of domestic abuse and coercive control. And also to isolate it to men as the perpetrators.
- louthy 3y agoWhere did I isolate it to any sex? I provided a source, feel free to provide other sources if you feel like there’s a need for balance.
- genewitch 3y agoyou didn't. but you quoted: > … tiny handful of creepy boyfriends … And the person who replied to you was continuing your thought with an additional point, not calling you out.
- louthy 3y ago> not calling you out. If so, I misunderstood, apologies @robertlagrant
- robertlagrant 3y agoNo worries! Genewitch interpreted what I meant correctly. Happy new year (-:
- AlotOfReading 3y agoThere are legitimate uses for tracking, but it's a pretty reasonable ask for companies to mitigate the illegitimate uses and respect consent about the collection to begin with. I've seen that internal data before. It's profoundly creepy and not something I'm okay with the manufacturer having on my family, but I can't meaningfully opt us out of.
- pc86 3y ago> Crime in a lot of places in the United States is so bad right now Categorically false. https://www.rubyhome.com/blog/property-crime-stats/ https://www.rubyhome.com/blog/property-crime-stats/ "Official" FBI stats only go through 2019 but the rates match so I have no reason to believe that the graph showing a marked and steady decline in property crime rates decreasing is incorrect. Property crime rates have decreased every single year for two decades and look to be approximately half what they were 20 years ago. Every single year people regurgitate this "crime is so bad right now!!1" meme that never seems to die and is always wrong. Crime is decreasing, it has been decreasing in almost every geographic area in almost every category. If you're younger than Gen X this has been happening for most of your entire life. We live in one of the safest times in human history, most of us reading this live in one of the safest countries in the world, and Kias being easy to steal or some idiotic DAs refusing to prosecute petty thefts out of some misplaced sense of social justice does not change reality.
- kyledrake 3y agohttps://www.axios.com/2023/07/20/car-thefts-2023-kia-hyundai-crime-data https://www.axios.com/2023/07/20/car-thefts-2023-kia-hyundai...
- rileymat2 3y agoAt 86 per 100k per year, if we assume the average loss is about 50k (which might be high) we are talking like a $43 insurance premium per year? If I understand that correctly it is not a huge problem to focus on? But we should keep an eye on the trend continuing. I wonder what the ROI on additional criminal justice costs or additional antitheft costs is? They would have to be pretty cheap to make it worth it.
- anonym29 3y agoYou think Kia and Hyundai are bad? Focus one or two more layer in, at specific models ans trims, instead of whole makes. Check out the theft rates on Dodge Chargers and Dodge Challengers in the Hellcat trim level.
- steelframe 3y agoLetting other people track my location all the time is a very steep price for me to pay for any perceived benefit. > losing it in a parking garage I stop for a second and pay attention to where I parked my car. Maybe even take a quick picture of the surroundings with my phone. The "lock chirp" using my key fob usually makes up for the times I'm not quite sure where it is. > determining whether it's been towed or stolen Most municipalities where you're likely to be towed have an impound vehicle search website. I'm not going to let other people track me all the time just for a bit more convenience on the extremely rare occasion that my vehicle might be towed or stolen. > rescue help in case it's in a more remote area during a blizzard I check the weather and don't drive into remote areas during blizzards. I suppose if you're inclined to do that, you might want someone to track you all the time so they can maybe rescue you when you make those kinds of choices? > Crime in a lot of places in the United States is so bad right now that being able to track your car is critical infrastructure at this point If you are unfortunate enough to park a Kia in Seattle or San Francisco, I guess you've got a problem. But tracking my car is more for the benefit of my insurance company in that case.
- kayodelycaon 3y agoRemembering to do the right things isn’t possible for everyone. So you’re kind of blaming the victim here. I’ll always have the parking garage problem due to poor memory. Sometimes I remember that I take a picture but my brain can’t remember to do that reliably. Building habits is nearly impossible for me. I even have a documented disability saying this happens, so it’s not for lack of trying. My solution to solving this problem is to not require habits but to preemptively account for my blind spots. AirTags have been life changing for me.
- kccqzy 3y agoYou have a patchwork of solutions to deal with the lack of tracking. Some people don't like the mental overhead of that patchwork of solutions and would rather have GPS tracking. It's a valid trade off. It is however typical HN mentality to assume that nobody wants tracking whereas it is a matter of individual choice. > a very steep price for me Great. Now have some empathy with people for whom the price isn't steep at all.
- giantg2 3y agoIn most cases the car trackers are trivially simple for criminals to defeat. They really aren't a big detergent. Even if you're using a good aftermarket one, its not a detergent but a recovery tool - if they know about it they can usually disable it. If you're friend has had their car stolen so many times, what are they doing about it?
- 1shooner 3y agoI don't equate the desire to have the option to not be tracked with 'handing criminals another theft tool', and I also certainly don't consider having my movements monitored to be 'critical infrastructure'. These sentiments are just acquiescence to mass surveillance for the sake of property control. Both the tracking described in the article and the usb vulnerability are symptoms of an industry that has irresponsibly deployed potentially dangerous technology.